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Henry v 1413-22 Quarter Noble Spink 1757Var. 1.71g Obverse: HENRIC REX ANGL FRANC within treasure of arches, stops of various shapes. Trefoil to left and mullet to right. Reverse: EXCVLTABTUR IN GLORIA (“He shall be exalted in glory”). Cross with lions in angles: lis in centre. Mullet to the right was to distinguish the kings new mint master Lewis John. Henry v’s first mint master. Appointed to the role on 14th April 1413. The trefoil was used as a periodic privy mark to identify a specific minting window die variation or administrative shift within the tower mint. The Annulets (small circles) placed around the arches served the exact same high-utility purpose as the ones next to the central shield or to top. They acted as a subtle internal code to identify the exact sub-series, die variation, and specific mint run. The “1757 Var” Designation: in British numismatics “1757” refers to the ID in the Spink standard catalogue of British coins. The “Var” (variety) means it features a distinct die error or sub type -specifically, a spelling variation, in the reverse Latin legend that reads EXCVLTABTVR instead of the standard EXALTABITVR, (“He shall be exalted in glory”).

I can only suggest that when a brockage happens, the press is full of unwanted metal which in these cases shattered one of the flans with the remnant causing what is seen. The offending item did not bind to the full flan and fell off. It doesn't look concocted in either case, as the incuse legends are approximately correct for orientation, albeit displaced significantly in the first one.

Hello, I am in the midst of writing a relatively large article on the 1887 Jubilee Coinage - estimated to be about 600pgs in total. In the process of such research, I spent about a week at the Royal Mint studying about ~200 tools relevant to the coinage and a similiar number of coins. Unfortunately, it seems that the Mint did not retain the original plaster models designed by Boehm. It often had seemed to be suggested that the relevant item(s) had been destroyed - a fact that I could not bear to hear! Hopefully, continuing the research into plaster models, with some vague hope of finding something, I did come across a 2010 Baldwin's sale, auction 68, which sure enough had a plaster model of the Jubilee Head! Well, I contacted Steve Hill of Sovereign Rarities, who worked at Baldwin's who confirmed that the piece sold to a bidder in Australia, and was since resold in auction 100 of Noble Numismatics (an Australian based auction house) after failing to sell in auction 99. I am now trying to contact the owner of such a piece, though I am having difficultly identifying who may own it. Should anyone have an idea of who may own it, it would be greatly appreciated for this to be shared with me. To my knowledge, it is likely an Australian collector, perhaps someone with a focus on the Jubilee coinage. Similiarly, if anyone has any high quality images of the copper electrotype described in BNJ 1984 by Graham Dyer, please would you be able to share it with me! Kind regards, -Ashley

He would have said something like "I remember the old mismatics under Obama - they were rubbish, fake."

Thank you very much Stuart, very kind. That coin is pretty rare to see on the market too, in any decent condition, yours are the best that I have seen. And certainly I will share the files here as well as with PAS, and anyone with a use for them. New examples have slowed but still occasionally come out of the woodwork. I am also creating sheets for early and late Medieval English, and Scottish medieval coins. I will be sharing those too. All a work in progress, perhaps another month or so .. With kind regards David

I said if i found out any more information I would post it up on the thread. I have found a little more out about the guy whose name , rank etc is edge engraved on the cartwheel penny. He was apparently born around 1784 in Inveravon, Banff, Scotland and died at the ripe old age of 93 from the Flu on November 22nd 1877 in Conval Street , Dufftown. Not a bad innings for a seasoned veteran. Stu.

I understand how a full brockage happens, but not how a mis-shaped partial occurs. Can someone enlighten me please?

Because they know no better and want to believe what they see. Unfortunately, knowledge requires some input from the prospective purchaser in the form of reading up the subject before buying. To me and you it is simple, but that's because we are interested in the subject matter. For the uninitiated just randomly looking for things that appeal visually, it's not a great step to hit the buy button. Sad but true. Ebay can't police the content sufficiently to make a difference, so once again, it relies on the moral compass of the seller. There should be a useful statistic in there somewhere for a number for Mr. Average's honesty coefficient, not to mention the gullibility coefficient of the typical buyer.

The class 3 and 9 coins available in much better grades generally.

You’ve finally got some scales 😃 Taking your weight, and using the criterion from the North article below, I’d say yours is an early issue (1280-1284?) Dublin farthing - Open Es & Cs and the clear wedge-tailed R of Rex. Whilst the reverse legend is weak, it does appear to me that there are both a D and an I starting in each quarter, making it Dublin (CIVI TAS DVBL INIE). I believe the only other mint for these farthings is Waterford (CIVI TAS VATE RFOR), so you can probably rule that out in this case…I’ll let you to decide what letters you see, it’ll be so much easier for you to confirm in-hand. https://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/Digital BNJ/pdfs/1997_BNJ_67_4.pdf

Definitely just post mint damage as Chris says. I think someone back in the late 1800s actually suspected it might have been a forgery (it's not, but many were at the time) and has cut or chopped the flan to test. The metal displacement can be seen along the entire length of the cut on the top side of it (so chopped at an angle upwards from SW to NE) and subsequent circulation wear has smoothed it out a bit including blending it into the beads, and separating off the bottom serif of the I to make a big blob. Not a mint fault, I'm afraid. You're actually not far wrong when you say hit with an axe! More likely a chisel.

It's not actually a denarius as you'd think but a drachm. Here's a similar one...https://en.numista.com/235578 The legends are the giveaway with it.

I am very well acquainted with him! In fact, I worked with Sovereign Rarities on his auction last year, and have since remained in close contact with him! He did almost purchase the plaster model in 2010, but alas decided against it!

I always like to see them, and have got better at Identifying them, but I have resisted collecting them. That is one huge rabbit hole to go down!

I think I can see the remains of "IMP TRAIAN ..." on the obverse, so Trajan? Reverse legend seems to have some Greek letters, so possibly Roman provincial.

https://ebay.io/m/Bvd8Q6 😬

Spot on. It could in theory be a class 1a2, 1a5, 1b1, 1b2 or 1c, but 1a2 is immediately ruled out because there is no square C or E and 1a5 because there is no stop after LVND. The others rely on observing a stop between S and R on the obverse (present on 1b1 and 1b2, but omitted on 1c). The round C and the R are clear enough, but is the gap between the two letters big enough for a stop? I'm not sure. In the end it doesn't really matter, because the coin is pretty much toast, but I enjoy getting as far as possible with these hopeless cases.

MS is MS, MS 60 is an un-circulated coin. Higher grades are more subjective with MS61 and higher attention is paid to strike, bag knocks, luster. toning etc. Wear and poor strike being very difficult to distinguish when it is slight. Also attention should be paid to the condition of the milling of the coin edge The whole point of TPG is consistency for valuation and comparing coins. The subject coin from the photo shows slight wear on the higher points and more correctly graded AU 55 - 58 or EF IMO. Personally I prefer the Sheldon as it gets rid of the abt. nearly + etc that are much more subjective. However it must be applied accurately to be of use. Having said that the book The Standard Guide to Grading British Coins is a good guide

My thoughts on the German forgery is that I reckon they had bigger fish to fry in 1945, than to bother themselves with bronze pennies

The visible lettering is too crude and close to the rim IMO. It looks more like an abused attempt at a cast copy to me. Any attempts at acid cleaning will thin the letters and reduce dimensions on all 3 axes if there is total immersion. The weight of a cast would obviously depend on the amount of metal poured into the mould, so I think not relevant in this instance.

I absolutely LOVE this one, and you only get to see the reverse, too…maybe they’re just being kind! Kind of Knight-like in shape, quite the piece of art https://ebay.io/m/Mck7Te

In the case of written text, I suspect it may have been underneath a piece of blotting paper or at least something as adsorbant as bog-roll. That was the only way I could rationalise my 1773 halfpenny on a spread flan with Basing House plus some indecipherables written in the hand of H Webb. The above could equally be due to someone making a poster. Anything written or pressed onto newsprint with excess ink is likely to pass through quite easily given the paper quality.

Interesting and educational read, here, on the counterfeiting of these shillings by Gary Oddie, just in case anyone’s interested! https://britnumsoc.blog/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/188-cft-commonwealth-oddie.pdf

Well spotted Mr G. Maybe my kids weren't so silly to suggest I sign up for the Biobank Alzheimers Accelerator Project after all. TBH, I'm not sure it needs to happen quicker anyway, but hey-ho. I had completely forgotten about that, but claim mitigating circumstances as I had just driven to the other end of the country through the night to look after the grandkids in Plymouth due to a family bereavement on the other side and not bothered going to bed afterwards. Hopefully get some sleep tonight when I can switch off.

Does anyone have any insight into the relative scarcity of the three Newcastle classes, measured against themselves? Over the last 3 or 4 years I’ve managed to pick up a class 3 and a class 9 in good grades, but have struggled to find the class 10 in a similarly collectable grade, with the attached coin, bearing the full Edward legend, the best I’ve found to-date.

I found my first 1946 ONE' penny today, in the rummage box at Dervaird Farm, Glenluce. It was obverse up on the bottom, looking like it might not have been looked at in years. One of those sublime moments. In view of your message above, I have to thank you for making it an even more desirable coin than it might otherwise have been😉

I Nearly scrapped this one for being a ex mount ...on the reverse some rather nice initials have been sympathetically added circa 1887

Hello and Many thanks... it is a shame that its rubbed, it was the triangle lead me to Ireland the solid long cross took me to thinking Edward I, I can make out CIVI but I'm still way off with the shape of the fonts but its a learning curve 👍

Yes of course this obverse was used in half pennies up to 1870s but it has never had square colons

Awesome find, 👍😀

Looks like a (post mint) scratch to me. The blob above the C is displaced metal moved aside from the rim, caused by the scratch.

@SohoMint did you try Jim Noble to see if he would contact the owner on your behalf?

ah...! 🤔 it was a surf of the Google Trajan brought up "Reverse: COS V P P SPQR OPTIMO PRINC. Arabia shelf on the left, carrying branch and cinnamon sticks, at your camel feet" it didn't make much sense to me but hey, who am I to over think these things 🤷🏻‍♂️, Stuart and Paddy have been of great help to me as always, incorrectly its been referred to as a Denarius almost everywhere, Numista (many thanks Stuart) has been a great help, they have it as a Uncertain Arabian Roman city... Script in Greek....as recognised by Paddy, from the year 112. it seem to be quite high as a rarity and Silver, Its very useful to learn these things and write all this down so I can put this away and rediscover without fear of thinking what the Heck is that?? Greatly indebted to you all, so once again many thanks 🙏🏻

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I am already in regular contact with SohoMint. I nearly bought the lot but just dipped out at the last.

You want to talk to @1887jubilee who knows more about the 1887 JH coinage than anyone I've ever met.

Yes - 'fraid so! Wallowing in the luxury of retirement now.

Has anyone come across the half penny having six strings to the harp. I believe it should only have five, the strings are also very thick possibly a double strike but looking at the rest of the harp I’m not so sure.

I see your point. The designs of modern coinage, including pre-decimal QE2 as here, are low relief to prolong the die life, almost 2-D with negligible depth, and thus it might not need much acid dunking to erode any shallow raised detail, if it were treated so. As the adjacent field would also be dissolving that may produce the expanded effect as shown, almost like a ghost image, but that's just thinking of a theory and probably doesn't make sense. The marks aren't acid marks either, they're loads of small cuts, perhaps kept in a tin with other coins for many years.

This book does not exist?? Looking to know more about Roger Keenan. I live in Torquay and I will investigate this gentleman and any book. Please if anyone can help me or give any advice. Thank you

Nice one, Stu, thank you 🙏

My Grandad had this penny in his draw since the 1960's. Because of the date, 1945, he thought it was an attempted German forgery. We always know it as Fred's tin penny.

Sorted then. Well done. Those who don't like keeping reference books/records, please note.

That’s a super-crude counterfeit, surely? Would a Scottish coin have English titles on it, I can’t say that I’d know?

I think even a couple of the brass threepences came out very washed out, almost greyscale like, but everything was colour and the content is the same for this new colour p/b version.

Quick update, and thanks to @Sword, @Paddy, @Rob and @wlewisiii for the advice back in January. I went with Paddy's option 4 crossed with option 1: the better pieces listed singly, the rest in three job lots, and the storage kit sold separately as Sword suggested. Then some are going to the coin machine in the bank. It indeed took some time! Everything is live now if anyone here is interested. Mods, if a list like this does not belong in the Beginners area, please let me know Auctions: Job lot, 59 x 50p, Olympic and Paralympic, Beatrix Potter, Paddington, Hastings https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074570140 Job lot, 31 x £2, Brunel, Darwin, Great Fire, Dickens https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074564565 Job lot, 42 x round £1, capital cities, bridges, floral, Gibraltar https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074568516 2011 Football 50p, offside rule https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074572209 2002 Commonwealth Games England £2 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074571551 SAFE 760 album with 7 pages, SAFE 748 wooden box, 51 Hartberger 2x2 holders https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128076004657 Buy It Now: 2011 Tennis 50p https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074576632 2011 Mary Rose £2 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074578742 2011 King James Bible £2 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074582376 2008 London Olympic centenary £2 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074584978 2008 Beijing to London handover £2 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074586211 2010 London capital cities £1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074587492 2011 Cardiff capital cities £1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074552958 1988 Royal Shield £1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074588449 2003 Royal Arms £1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074592519 1997 Isle of Man cricket £1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074589172 2000 Isle of Man millennium bells £1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074572844 1987 Falkland Islands £1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128075488415 Isle of Man and Guernsey small change lot https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128075488415

I'm sorry that it felt overwhelming. I mean that sincerely aswell. Can you appreciate I just got carried away with the excitment of the discovery, and maybe should of kept it a bit more precise. Worth noting this whole process, the dos and donts, what order of process, who to speak to, what I can and cant say, its all completely new to me. The analysis and the asociated research is a steep learning curve without any help or silence on the matter.. Its hard enough as it is discovering an unrecorded variety, then add in everything else! Rather than risk leaving out a piece of information that maybe valuable or important, I tried my best to include as much info as possible. Can you see my logic? I actually sent Michael 11 images, and he thanked me for the "excellent images" in his own words. Coinery last night was chucking around all kinds of insults and assumptions. Im just here to learn about coins, share my findings, and learn from all of you as much as I can. Il take this opourtunity to formaly apologize to anyone I have offended along the journey so far. That includes coinery aswell.. To mention my social skills, he insulted me and yet Im the one apologising. Thats not juvenille. I would like the focus of this thread to be about the question in hand, the discovery! A post-1864 unrecorded error letter variety is a significant discovery.. Rather than celebrating I feel like I have done something wrong.

Hiya - thanks guys. Rare in the sense that they are no longer in circulation and therefore not legal tender. I know many were made at the time though. yeah when I filtered eBay to items that had actually sold, it seems they don’t go for more than £3-£10 unfortunately. oh well….

What is the American MS64 - our GVF?

It screams fake at you. A mint mark in the shape of a pomegranate would be a good start. It is found after MARIA on the obverse, and if present on the reverse is after VERITAS.