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Thank you very much Stuart, very kind. That coin is pretty rare to see on the market too, in any decent condition, yours are the best that I have seen. And certainly I will share the files here as well as with PAS, and anyone with a use for them. New examples have slowed but still occasionally come out of the woodwork. I am also creating sheets for early and late Medieval English, and Scottish medieval coins. I will be sharing those too. All a work in progress, perhaps another month or so .. With kind regards David

I said if i found out any more information I would post it up on the thread. I have found a little more out about the guy whose name , rank etc is edge engraved on the cartwheel penny. He was apparently born around 1784 in Inveravon, Banff, Scotland and died at the ripe old age of 93 from the Flu on November 22nd 1877 in Conval Street , Dufftown. Not a bad innings for a seasoned veteran. Stu.

The class 3 and 9 coins available in much better grades generally.

Hi Shelly. Sorry, but no large value. It is a result of a die beginning to break up shortly before it dies. Given enough time, every die would show this feature (or something else related to the wear process) as it is due to a chip breaking off, which leaves a depression in the die surface where it shouldn't be and results in a raised lump. You might get something on ebay for it, but don't plan for a night out on the proceeds! List it for more than the cost of a second class letter stamp plus 5p and you will have a profit, as there is a collector for everything. In numismatic terms it is called a cud. FYI, another die fault arising from their destruction includes cracking prior to complete failure (leaving a raised irregular line or lines). The pictures help to explain what I mean. The second also shows a depression in the reverse field due to the flan having a fault too - usually due to bad metal mixing or a trapped air pocket. Raised will be on the die and recessed (incuse) due to the flan. Faults have many varieties and can make an interesting collection in their own right. If you are interested and want to pursue something along these lines, ask questions and search through past threads. It is fun (honestly). Edited to add that the weakness in REX on the obverse is likely due to the compromised integrity of the reverse die, as the die axis is inverted and so follows the line of the reverse flaw. Weak or missing letters is another error rabbit hole to look into.

I Nearly scrapped this one for being a ex mount ...on the reverse some rather nice initials have been sympathetically added circa 1887

Well spotted Mr G. Maybe my kids weren't so silly to suggest I sign up for the Biobank Alzheimers Accelerator Project after all. TBH, I'm not sure it needs to happen quicker anyway, but hey-ho. I had completely forgotten about that, but claim mitigating circumstances as I had just driven to the other end of the country through the night to look after the grandkids in Plymouth due to a family bereavement on the other side and not bothered going to bed afterwards. Hopefully get some sleep tonight when I can switch off.

Does anyone have any insight into the relative scarcity of the three Newcastle classes, measured against themselves? Over the last 3 or 4 years I’ve managed to pick up a class 3 and a class 9 in good grades, but have struggled to find the class 10 in a similarly collectable grade, with the attached coin, bearing the full Edward legend, the best I’ve found to-date.

I found my first 1946 ONE' penny today, in the rummage box at Dervaird Farm, Glenluce. It was obverse up on the bottom, looking like it might not have been looked at in years. One of those sublime moments. In view of your message above, I have to thank you for making it an even more desirable coin than it might otherwise have been😉

don't try eating it afterwards lol

I rather think the silence may be more down to the sheer flood of posts and pictures you've made just recently? I got halfway through yesterday and then gave up.

It was often said if you took all the pieces of the true cross from around the med and you could build a boat out of them

Dead right Paddy. Anything for a quick buck.

There have been several of the same style posted here:

I'm pretty confident these are both modern replicas. Yours, Stuart, looks like someone 'aged' it to try and pass it off as genuine (vs just contemporary).

Thank you. I just weighed it don’t know why I didn’t think of that before. It wouldn’t be a convincing fake as weighs 5.62g. So assuming it’s a newer reproduction from a museum shop or something. Other coins in the heap seem fine. But not interesting.

Sorted then. Well done. Those who don't like keeping reference books/records, please note.

That’s a super-crude counterfeit, surely? Would a Scottish coin have English titles on it, I can’t say that I’d know?

We meet on the first Tuesday of every month starting at 7:30 in the Nursey Inn on Green Lane in Heaton Norris. Below is the text outlined in our 2025 chairman's report which gives full details. South Manchester Numismatic Society (SMNS) Chairman’s Report to 2026 BANS Our AGM was held in June 2025 at our long-standing venue, the Nursery Inn, Heaton Norris, Stockport, SK6 4NL. 7 members attended and 2 apologies were accepted. In addition to the normal agenda, discussions moved on to topics which had been submitted by members as AOB. As a result of these conversations the following was agreed. It was decided that our subscription to Zoom should be cancelled, although the option to renew remains under consideration. We also reduced our annual subscription to £5. It was decided to change our meeting start time to 7.30 from 8.00 pm and to reduce the number of meetings to the level of most BANS societies at once a month. One of our members, Roy Williams, volunteered to submit pieces for publication in the Societies section of Coin News. He has been doing an excellent job in promoting SMNS. Since the AGM the average attendance has been eight across seven meetings which has been boosted by the recent pleasing acceptance of four new members. Two of us, Denis Martin and Paul Greenlees, have given presentations. The Exhibition Evening and the Colin Cooke trophy was won by David Holt for his display of Henry VIII posthumous coinage. At the latest meeting chairman Denis spoke an appreciation and presented Peter Crummett with a gift to celebrate his 90th birthday. It was decided to make Peter an Honorary Member following his over 65 years of support. Before the 2026 AGM in June we have a quiz and a talk from Peter to which we can look forward. In writing this Charman’s report I am pleased to announce that 2025/6 has been a most successful one. Dr Denis M Martin ( Chairman) There is a good range of knowledge in the club, with quite a few specialist fields. Early medieval, Tudor & Stuart, Greek and Roman and some Byzantine, Farthings, Shillings, Modern, Tokens misc. Foreign is probably the least represented unless covered by other fields. We are a tolerant lot that appreciate you can't know everything, so any additional knowledge is welcome. Online access to the meeting was used so that Garry Oddie and others could 'attend', but that obviously went tits up when he died. He joined most meetings and often gave a talk.

Good day I am compiling a sheet or two or medieval ligations, mostly from Henry III pennies, and have been helped immensely by Silbury Coins, however I see that your two coins seem to have an SR ligation henricvSRex, one I have not come across. The reason I am doing this started off as an aid for me - I am a self-recording detectorist and volunteer image editing time with the Portable Antiquities Scheme. My intention is to make the complete pages, or as complete as I can make it, available in the public domain, to help others identify poorly preserved coinage. I wonder if I might extract the SR ligation from one or both of your coin images? Happy to acknowledge contributions to the work. Kind regards Dr David BAKER (retired)

The Standard Guide to Grading British Coins has been in print since 2009, initially as a colour hardback and then since 2014 as a black and white (greyscale) paperback. Some have criticised the black and white images over the years, and rightly so, but re-printing in colour was very costly and I always felt the price of the finished product was too high. But I always felt it deserved to be in colour again, so now, for the first time in about 13 years, a colour version of The Standard Guide to Grading British Coins is available. Price is £20.95 (£2 off the normal £22.95) and it can be pre-ordered here, with delivery later this month and free postage within the UK: https://coinpublications.com/product/the-standard-guide-to-grading-british-coins-colour/

It should calculate it as £2 flat-rate for all deliveries to international addresses. I send the international ones from Germany as it's much, much cheaper than from the UK.

Many thanks TG I’ll message him. ☺️ I’ve been trying to glean a bit more information from the SCBI 39 about the closure date of the Newcastle mint, and of the date signatures of class 10, to see if I can work out how long the Newcastle mint operated into that class. The date of the mint closure appears to be September 1302 but, depending on who you listen to, the commencement of Class 10 is either September that same year (Fox brothers), or nearly 18 months earlier if you go with North? The Fox brothers’ date would suggest a minuscule mintage of class 10 coins under Newcastle, whereas North’s dates would allow a production window of 18 months. Given the number of Newcastle Class 10 coins available, it makes me wonder who’s got the commencement of the class right? I’d love to acquire every mint in every class someday! I’m currently this far down the rabbit hole, so fingers crossed: Class VI Bury St Edmunds (#1) Class VI Bury St Edmunds (#2) 1c London 1d London 1d London (1 x reversed N on reverse) 2a London 2b Canterbury 3b London 3c Canterbury 3e Newcastle 3e York 3g London 3g Lincoln 3g Durham 3g Bristol (1) 3g Bristol (2) 4c Canterbury eBay 4c London 4d London 6a1 London 7a London 8a London 8c London 9b1 Durham 9b1 Exeter 9b1 London 9b1 Newcastle 9b2 York (Royal) 10ab London 10ab Newcastle 10cf1 London 10cf2 Durham 10cf2a London 10cf3 London 10cf5 London 12a Canterbury 12a Canterbury 12a Canterbury 12a London 14 Canterbury 14 Bury St Edmunds 15c Bury St Edmunds eBay

I think even a couple of the brass threepences came out very washed out, almost greyscale like, but everything was colour and the content is the same for this new colour p/b version.

I have no idea, but it occurs to me that perhaps this is the sort of information that Martin Allen at the EMC might have to hand? Mra25@cam.ac.uk

I'm sorry that it felt overwhelming. I mean that sincerely aswell. Can you appreciate I just got carried away with the excitment of the discovery, and maybe should of kept it a bit more precise. Worth noting this whole process, the dos and donts, what order of process, who to speak to, what I can and cant say, its all completely new to me. The analysis and the asociated research is a steep learning curve without any help or silence on the matter.. Its hard enough as it is discovering an unrecorded variety, then add in everything else! Rather than risk leaving out a piece of information that maybe valuable or important, I tried my best to include as much info as possible. Can you see my logic? I actually sent Michael 11 images, and he thanked me for the "excellent images" in his own words. Coinery last night was chucking around all kinds of insults and assumptions. Im just here to learn about coins, share my findings, and learn from all of you as much as I can. Il take this opourtunity to formaly apologize to anyone I have offended along the journey so far. That includes coinery aswell.. To mention my social skills, he insulted me and yet Im the one apologising. Thats not juvenille. I would like the focus of this thread to be about the question in hand, the discovery! A post-1864 unrecorded error letter variety is a significant discovery.. Rather than celebrating I feel like I have done something wrong.

I found maybe 3 or 4 as a schoolboy in the late 60s, and only because few people knew about it (an issue of Coin Monthly in 1968 first drew my attention to it). Sadly my examples are in average circulated condition - high grade examples seem few and far between.

found in my change today 2025 by the way

Hiya - thanks guys. Rare in the sense that they are no longer in circulation and therefore not legal tender. I know many were made at the time though. yeah when I filtered eBay to items that had actually sold, it seems they don’t go for more than £3-£10 unfortunately. oh well….

Spink are offering an Historical Documents auction to their clients which features, among selected rarities, two important collections: The John Webb Collection of Important English Civil War Documents – A collection some 50 years in a ever-so-careful and judicious making… How absolutely fabulous is that? I’d love to have some of those documents!

Plenty, but I don't want to take over the thread and quite a few are shown elsewhere. I have approx 2 dozen in the collection with different reasons for the various errors as made.

'Normal for Berwick'?

Just returning to this…I agree with your Berwick classification. Re the portrait, it could be all that extra hair on his forehead, that’s unusual? Otherwise it all looks normal to me, the classic wonky chin, all rather Gollumesque 🙂

Buy some! I will only be interested in any that correlate to troop movements which ties in specific issues of coins.

Washing works with silver but not with bronze unfortunately. You could try bathing it in light olive oil for a few days but not for too long.

seen a lot worse , scarcer date as well.

It's an acceptable example, but shame about the green.

I have recently acquired x3 "True Cross" Terracotta Pilgrim Tokens. They are reported to have been commissioned by Emperor Heraclius to commemorate the recovery of the True Cross from the Persians in C630 AD. It has been reported that a small piece of the True Cross was cut off and burnt, and the ash mixed with the Clay. Although this could be a good selling pitch at the time?? The two figures beneath the Cross are supposed to be Constantine and his Mother Helena. Other reports state they are Peter & Paul? The backs are plain. One is 18mm Dia. The other two are 15mm. The two smaller pieces both have an X over both arms of the Cross. All in VGC

Ah, but I asked AI and it confirmed I am Spartacus! So it must be true!

more found whilst sorting out, Victorian 3 pence, engraved flowers..

Your coin is not the "normal pairing" apparently (from those pictures), but shares the same pairing as the I over T - which suggests that more than one die was used for that pairing.

Very interesting items! Not something I would collect, but definitely intriguing. I suspect when they were made unscrupulous dealers were rooking credulous pilgrims. Nothing has really changed!

Not sure, but I don't think Indian. The writing appears to be using Roman letters but the style is crude for Roman Imperial. Maybe Roman provincial?

Im pleased to own one of the few that was made in London for 1882! Taken from the RM website: In 1810, we left the Tower of London and moved to a new purpose-built facility at nearby Tower Hill which could better accommodate steam-powered machinery. Eight massive presses stood in the Coining Press Room, each capable of striking about 60 coins a minute. In the 1880s, the factory buildings were reconstructed and smaller, faster and quieter machines replaced the presses. At the turn of the twentieth century, steam power gave way to electrification and master tools were increasingly produced using reducing machines. Instead of engraving by hand, at size in steel, an artist could prepare a larger plaster model. A mould was then taken and electroplated with nickel and copper, yielding a reproduction known as an electrotype that could be mounted on an engraving machine and scanned. These movements were communicated to a rotating cutter, which copied them at coin size into a block of steel.

I am working on a colonial coin type collection which includes many foreign coins, including British. Recently I found a small book titled 'The Coins of Colonial America' which basically listed and illustrated coins found when the grounds of our colonial Williamsburg were dug up. My current collection has the George III embossed 8 Reale and 4 Reale coins (oval stamp) and i thought that was it. However, the book showed a set of 4 coins: 1 Reale, 2 Reale, 4 Reale and 8 Reale each with the oval embossement. My copy of the 'Coins of England', 2025, does not show the two lower denomination coins. So, i'm asking here: why not? what is the story? the photo shows the book's illustration.

I concur. The approach to the newsagent is a lucrative source of income.

Your picture is too blurred for comment but here are my own pictures from my website: Single exergue with waves almost touching the line and double exergue with waves clear of the line.

Nerd indeed! You are paying for the beer Rob. I must admit talking about the die varieties of the 1887 sixpence has often put grandchildren to sleep. There are many unique pieces in the collection including varieties of the 14 pearl sovereign, some patterns by Lauer, and J R Thomas. Plenty of proof varieties that just are not listed anywhere and so many crowns with different rim sizes. OK I will accept slightly off the spectrum but that is what research is all about. This one is unlisted

As you are obviously monitoring this seller, could we arrange a pinned thread somewhere to list the items regularly offered together with a few pictures, or links? This can only be beneficial.

It screams fake at you. A mint mark in the shape of a pomegranate would be a good start. It is found after MARIA on the obverse, and if present on the reverse is after VERITAS.