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He would have said something like "I remember the old mismatics under Obama - they were rubbish, fake."

Thank you very much Stuart, very kind. That coin is pretty rare to see on the market too, in any decent condition, yours are the best that I have seen. And certainly I will share the files here as well as with PAS, and anyone with a use for them. New examples have slowed but still occasionally come out of the woodwork. I am also creating sheets for early and late Medieval English, and Scottish medieval coins. I will be sharing those too. All a work in progress, perhaps another month or so .. With kind regards David

I said if i found out any more information I would post it up on the thread. I have found a little more out about the guy whose name , rank etc is edge engraved on the cartwheel penny. He was apparently born around 1784 in Inveravon, Banff, Scotland and died at the ripe old age of 93 from the Flu on November 22nd 1877 in Conval Street , Dufftown. Not a bad innings for a seasoned veteran. Stu.

Hello, I am in the midst of writing a relatively large article on the 1887 Jubilee Coinage - estimated to be about 600pgs in total. In the process of such research, I spent about a week at the Royal Mint studying about ~200 tools relevant to the coinage and a similiar number of coins. Unfortunately, it seems that the Mint did not retain the original plaster models designed by Boehm. It often had seemed to be suggested that the relevant item(s) had been destroyed - a fact that I could not bear to hear! Hopefully, continuing the research into plaster models, with some vague hope of finding something, I did come across a 2010 Baldwin's sale, auction 68, which sure enough had a plaster model of the Jubilee Head! Well, I contacted Steve Hill of Sovereign Rarities, who worked at Baldwin's who confirmed that the piece sold to a bidder in Australia, and was since resold in auction 100 of Noble Numismatics (an Australian based auction house) after failing to sell in auction 99. I am now trying to contact the owner of such a piece, though I am having difficultly identifying who may own it. Should anyone have an idea of who may own it, it would be greatly appreciated for this to be shared with me. To my knowledge, it is likely an Australian collector, perhaps someone with a focus on the Jubilee coinage. Similiarly, if anyone has any high quality images of the copper electrotype described in BNJ 1984 by Graham Dyer, please would you be able to share it with me! Kind regards, -Ashley

Because they know no better and want to believe what they see. Unfortunately, knowledge requires some input from the prospective purchaser in the form of reading up the subject before buying. To me and you it is simple, but that's because we are interested in the subject matter. For the uninitiated just randomly looking for things that appeal visually, it's not a great step to hit the buy button. Sad but true. Ebay can't police the content sufficiently to make a difference, so once again, it relies on the moral compass of the seller. There should be a useful statistic in there somewhere for a number for Mr. Average's honesty coefficient, not to mention the gullibility coefficient of the typical buyer.

The class 3 and 9 coins available in much better grades generally.

Hi Shelly. Sorry, but no large value. It is a result of a die beginning to break up shortly before it dies. Given enough time, every die would show this feature (or something else related to the wear process) as it is due to a chip breaking off, which leaves a depression in the die surface where it shouldn't be and results in a raised lump. You might get something on ebay for it, but don't plan for a night out on the proceeds! List it for more than the cost of a second class letter stamp plus 5p and you will have a profit, as there is a collector for everything. In numismatic terms it is called a cud. FYI, another die fault arising from their destruction includes cracking prior to complete failure (leaving a raised irregular line or lines). The pictures help to explain what I mean. The second also shows a depression in the reverse field due to the flan having a fault too - usually due to bad metal mixing or a trapped air pocket. Raised will be on the die and recessed (incuse) due to the flan. Faults have many varieties and can make an interesting collection in their own right. If you are interested and want to pursue something along these lines, ask questions and search through past threads. It is fun (honestly). Edited to add that the weakness in REX on the obverse is likely due to the compromised integrity of the reverse die, as the die axis is inverted and so follows the line of the reverse flaw. Weak or missing letters is another error rabbit hole to look into.

I Nearly scrapped this one for being a ex mount ...on the reverse some rather nice initials have been sympathetically added circa 1887

Henry v 1413-22 Quarter Noble Spink 1757Var. 1.71g Obverse: HENRIC REX ANGL FRANC within treasure of arches, stops of various shapes. Trefoil to left and mullet to right. Reverse: EXCVLTABTUR IN GLORIA (“He shall be exalted in glory”). Cross with lions in angles: lis in centre. Mullet to the right was to distinguish the kings new mint master Lewis John. Henry v’s first mint master. Appointed to the role on 14th April 1413. The trefoil was used as a periodic privy mark to identify a specific minting window die variation or administrative shift within the tower mint. The Annulets (small circles) placed around the arches served the exact same high-utility purpose as the ones next to the central shield or to top. They acted as a subtle internal code to identify the exact sub-series, die variation, and specific mint run. The “1757 Var” Designation: in British numismatics “1757” refers to the ID in the Spink standard catalogue of British coins. The “Var” (variety) means it features a distinct die error or sub type -specifically, a spelling variation, in the reverse Latin legend that reads EXCVLTABTVR instead of the standard EXALTABITVR, (“He shall be exalted in glory”).

I am very well acquainted with him! In fact, I worked with Sovereign Rarities on his auction last year, and have since remained in close contact with him! He did almost purchase the plaster model in 2010, but alas decided against it!

I always like to see them, and have got better at Identifying them, but I have resisted collecting them. That is one huge rabbit hole to go down!

I think I can see the remains of "IMP TRAIAN ..." on the obverse, so Trajan? Reverse legend seems to have some Greek letters, so possibly Roman provincial.

https://ebay.io/m/Bvd8Q6 😬

Spot on. It could in theory be a class 1a2, 1a5, 1b1, 1b2 or 1c, but 1a2 is immediately ruled out because there is no square C or E and 1a5 because there is no stop after LVND. The others rely on observing a stop between S and R on the obverse (present on 1b1 and 1b2, but omitted on 1c). The round C and the R are clear enough, but is the gap between the two letters big enough for a stop? I'm not sure. In the end it doesn't really matter, because the coin is pretty much toast, but I enjoy getting as far as possible with these hopeless cases.

MS is MS, MS 60 is an un-circulated coin. Higher grades are more subjective with MS61 and higher attention is paid to strike, bag knocks, luster. toning etc. Wear and poor strike being very difficult to distinguish when it is slight. Also attention should be paid to the condition of the milling of the coin edge The whole point of TPG is consistency for valuation and comparing coins. The subject coin from the photo shows slight wear on the higher points and more correctly graded AU 55 - 58 or EF IMO. Personally I prefer the Sheldon as it gets rid of the abt. nearly + etc that are much more subjective. However it must be applied accurately to be of use. Having said that the book The Standard Guide to Grading British Coins is a good guide

My thoughts on the German forgery is that I reckon they had bigger fish to fry in 1945, than to bother themselves with bronze pennies

The visible lettering is too crude and close to the rim IMO. It looks more like an abused attempt at a cast copy to me. Any attempts at acid cleaning will thin the letters and reduce dimensions on all 3 axes if there is total immersion. The weight of a cast would obviously depend on the amount of metal poured into the mould, so I think not relevant in this instance.

I absolutely LOVE this one, and you only get to see the reverse, too…maybe they’re just being kind! Kind of Knight-like in shape, quite the piece of art https://ebay.io/m/Mck7Te

In the case of written text, I suspect it may have been underneath a piece of blotting paper or at least something as adsorbant as bog-roll. That was the only way I could rationalise my 1773 halfpenny on a spread flan with Basing House plus some indecipherables written in the hand of H Webb. The above could equally be due to someone making a poster. Anything written or pressed onto newsprint with excess ink is likely to pass through quite easily given the paper quality.

Interesting and educational read, here, on the counterfeiting of these shillings by Gary Oddie, just in case anyone’s interested! https://britnumsoc.blog/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/188-cft-commonwealth-oddie.pdf

Well spotted Mr G. Maybe my kids weren't so silly to suggest I sign up for the Biobank Alzheimers Accelerator Project after all. TBH, I'm not sure it needs to happen quicker anyway, but hey-ho. I had completely forgotten about that, but claim mitigating circumstances as I had just driven to the other end of the country through the night to look after the grandkids in Plymouth due to a family bereavement on the other side and not bothered going to bed afterwards. Hopefully get some sleep tonight when I can switch off.

Does anyone have any insight into the relative scarcity of the three Newcastle classes, measured against themselves? Over the last 3 or 4 years I’ve managed to pick up a class 3 and a class 9 in good grades, but have struggled to find the class 10 in a similarly collectable grade, with the attached coin, bearing the full Edward legend, the best I’ve found to-date.

I found my first 1946 ONE' penny today, in the rummage box at Dervaird Farm, Glenluce. It was obverse up on the bottom, looking like it might not have been looked at in years. One of those sublime moments. In view of your message above, I have to thank you for making it an even more desirable coin than it might otherwise have been😉

You want to talk to @1887jubilee who knows more about the 1887 JH coinage than anyone I've ever met.

Ashley, this sounds phenomenal, I reckon there will be members on here that will be able to help you. The very best of luck in your search, please stay in touch with us all, we love things like this…very exciting! 🙏

It has the denomination half-crown on the reverse does it?

Agreed. It's the only forum on here i take a real interest in. Posts are few and far between on here so happy to see people still posting stuff as it gets neglected abit.

Stuart. For your own sanity, stay calm. Jackson - Kent spent 10 years analysing the string numbers on W3 coin harps only to conclude at the end of it that there was no significance. Personally, it makes more sense for the stops to be personal privy marks as an engraver id, as there are a number of types used, but thick string or thin string in varying quantities is never going to fly given die degradation. Stops however, are rarely confused.

As you say, this is a short-cross London penny of Henry II…minted by PIERES ON LVND

I see your point. The designs of modern coinage, including pre-decimal QE2 as here, are low relief to prolong the die life, almost 2-D with negligible depth, and thus it might not need much acid dunking to erode any shallow raised detail, if it were treated so. As the adjacent field would also be dissolving that may produce the expanded effect as shown, almost like a ghost image, but that's just thinking of a theory and probably doesn't make sense. The marks aren't acid marks either, they're loads of small cuts, perhaps kept in a tin with other coins for many years.

I’m hoping your packaging will deliver something slightly more round, Clive 🙏

Buttttt, it does have a 20% off coupon! Please don't blame the postie if this turns up on your door mat this week, Stuart... 😬

This book does not exist?? Looking to know more about Roger Keenan. I live in Torquay and I will investigate this gentleman and any book. Please if anyone can help me or give any advice. Thank you

Certainly looks like transfer of newsprint to me.

I know the mint was closed for relocation and reworking of the dies to improve quality in 1650, but there were coins minted for other denominations…were there definitely no shillings? I’m 99% certain this is a 6 that’s drifted off flan, but thought I’d ask, just in case someone had heard of a random die that may have been used as part of a trial?

Nice one, Stu, thank you 🙏

My Grandad had this penny in his draw since the 1960's. Because of the date, 1945, he thought it was an attempted German forgery. We always know it as Fred's tin penny.

Sorted then. Well done. Those who don't like keeping reference books/records, please note.

That’s a super-crude counterfeit, surely? Would a Scottish coin have English titles on it, I can’t say that I’d know?

I think even a couple of the brass threepences came out very washed out, almost greyscale like, but everything was colour and the content is the same for this new colour p/b version.

Quick update, and thanks to @Sword, @Paddy, @Rob and @wlewisiii for the advice back in January. I went with Paddy's option 4 crossed with option 1: the better pieces listed singly, the rest in three job lots, and the storage kit sold separately as Sword suggested. Then some are going to the coin machine in the bank. It indeed took some time! Everything is live now if anyone here is interested. Mods, if a list like this does not belong in the Beginners area, please let me know Auctions: Job lot, 59 x 50p, Olympic and Paralympic, Beatrix Potter, Paddington, Hastings https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074570140 Job lot, 31 x £2, Brunel, Darwin, Great Fire, Dickens https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074564565 Job lot, 42 x round £1, capital cities, bridges, floral, Gibraltar https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074568516 2011 Football 50p, offside rule https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074572209 2002 Commonwealth Games England £2 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074571551 SAFE 760 album with 7 pages, SAFE 748 wooden box, 51 Hartberger 2x2 holders https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128076004657 Buy It Now: 2011 Tennis 50p https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074576632 2011 Mary Rose £2 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074578742 2011 King James Bible £2 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074582376 2008 London Olympic centenary £2 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074584978 2008 Beijing to London handover £2 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074586211 2010 London capital cities £1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074587492 2011 Cardiff capital cities £1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074552958 1988 Royal Shield £1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074588449 2003 Royal Arms £1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074592519 1997 Isle of Man cricket £1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074589172 2000 Isle of Man millennium bells £1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128074572844 1987 Falkland Islands £1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128075488415 Isle of Man and Guernsey small change lot https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/128075488415

I'm sorry that it felt overwhelming. I mean that sincerely aswell. Can you appreciate I just got carried away with the excitment of the discovery, and maybe should of kept it a bit more precise. Worth noting this whole process, the dos and donts, what order of process, who to speak to, what I can and cant say, its all completely new to me. The analysis and the asociated research is a steep learning curve without any help or silence on the matter.. Its hard enough as it is discovering an unrecorded variety, then add in everything else! Rather than risk leaving out a piece of information that maybe valuable or important, I tried my best to include as much info as possible. Can you see my logic? I actually sent Michael 11 images, and he thanked me for the "excellent images" in his own words. Coinery last night was chucking around all kinds of insults and assumptions. Im just here to learn about coins, share my findings, and learn from all of you as much as I can. Il take this opourtunity to formaly apologize to anyone I have offended along the journey so far. That includes coinery aswell.. To mention my social skills, he insulted me and yet Im the one apologising. Thats not juvenille. I would like the focus of this thread to be about the question in hand, the discovery! A post-1864 unrecorded error letter variety is a significant discovery.. Rather than celebrating I feel like I have done something wrong.

found in my change today 2025 by the way

'Normal for Berwick'?

Just returning to this…I agree with your Berwick classification. Re the portrait, it could be all that extra hair on his forehead, that’s unusual? Otherwise it all looks normal to me, the classic wonky chin, all rather Gollumesque 🙂

more found whilst sorting out, Victorian 3 pence, engraved flowers..

What is the American MS64 - our GVF?

Your picture is too blurred for comment but here are my own pictures from my website: Single exergue with waves almost touching the line and double exergue with waves clear of the line.

Hello Paddy... unless already spotted historically I bought blindly any coins (way back pre computers day) that looked old enough to be a important find, I think the seller claimed it was Roman and I cant remember how much it was but knowing me it was under a £1, 30 odd years ago...... Paddy, many thanks for all of your time taken in dealing with my challenges. all the very best "H"