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Rob, I see your point that a completionist would collect all types including proofs, yet though we (penny collectors) call ourselves completionists we spend a lot more on (variant) washers than we do on proofs; so you infer that cost is not a factor. I believe that it is the money saved on not splashing at proofs, which drives the value of minor variants to Jupiter. Further you must also consider that most penny collectors go through many thousands (on an average I go through 300 pennies every week apart from regularly scrolling through ebay listings) of coins during their collecting lifespan. I wouldn’t say someone collecting sovereigns or halfcrowns would go through the same volume of coins as a penny collector. The time spent on digging through countless coins in the pursuit of stumbling upon a scare variant or to find something that hasn’t been recorded as yet is the fun part of collecting pennies. Even after memorising volumes of material I have found that new varieties keep shoiwng up and to talk to fellow lunatics about your new discovery over a drink is a MASTERCARD experience - priceless. Personally I have had the pleasure of unearthing the second known slender 3, the first known VIGTORIA and bringing to the notice of the community that the Andy Scot 1953 mule was not a proof but a currency issue (which to date remains the only known currency specimen) amongst making many other minor contributions to the community. The bottom line is most would be happy to acquire a proof coin for the price of an unc version but I feel the obsession with proofs stops there. Again this is why the 1951 proof is cheaper than the currency version in UNC. That said I am guilty of bidding (though my top bid was just slightly over half of what the coin realised ) on the 1933 Baldwin pattern (see we do make exceptions)

Well, the following is the relevant extract from the rules pertaining to the auction, copied from Colin Cooke's website:- The emboldened bit is the most relevant in this regard. So essentially, if you made a bid at 11.59pm on 23rd May, the auction for the item you made the bid on would not close one minute later at midnight, unless you were the sole bidder. If there were other bidders, they would be notified of your late bid, and offered the chance to raise their bid. Obviously, if they declined, the item is yours. If one or more raised their bids above yours, then you and the others, in turn would be re-notified of that higher bid. This process would continue until such time as all but one of the bidders dropped out. Not sure how long would be given between your last competing high bid and the coin being yours, if there were no further bids. That's how I understand it anyway, Jon. Hope it makes sense.

Prax, I'm attaching the excerpt from the Numismatic Circular of 1986 (before anyone knew that it was a pattern obverse with 122 beads) regarding the Max Brehm/M Gouby/A Scott coin. The article doesn't refer to it as a proof - it was Michael that described it as a matt proof. Richard

Thanks Pete Never took part on this type of auction before so wanted to be sure

yea 34s are mint toned, it looks like it in the seller photo, just seems to be overly lit.

Is that the same coin Matt ?.

Does anyone know who bought that Andy Scott mule ? They might not realise that they now own the only other known 1953 penny with pattern C* obverse (I own and discovered the first)

Sorry, they were catalogued as F129 Proofs - my mistake. BUT, Gouby erroneously describes F129 as obverse R +reverse r (Freeman 12+N) on page VP19 whereas Freeman describes F129 as S+r (13+N). The coins in the Roland Harris sale (lots 767 & 768) are both clearly obverse S (Freeman 13) so they could be F129 but that might be why Gouby thought that they were F128 (S+r).

I limit myself to circulation strikes for budgetary reasons... I am on a fixed income and have to enforce some limits... As a general rule no proofs nor patterns, although I do have some that I did manage to obtain.. That being said, I am a completionist by nature and try to include the varieties when I can... I have been fortunate in acquiring many scarce and rare varieties although I know I cannot acquire everything.. If money were no object I would collect EVERYTHING, that being the completionist in me.. I know that there are several bronze pennies that I probably will never own, unless I find them unattributed somewhere.. the 1933, the 1952 & 1954, I have an F-192a but not the new variants, the rare 1953 varieties, the 1863 slender 3, die #'s 3 & 5, etc.... However, I keep on looking... hoping to at least possibly find an F-19 somewhere... It's as much the thrill of the chase/hunt as anything else.... discovering new varieties etc...

I'm not saying you should be doing one to the exclusion of the other, rather that I'm surprised you don't do both. A completionist I would expect to want both currency and proofs. A proof for any year is normally of a single type, which is more than can be said for the number of currency varieties covering the same period. You don't have a proof for every year and it isn't a case of excessive cost either as many years have currency varieties that cost more than the relevant proof. Take 1863. If you had all half a dozen types for that year, the cost of the proof would pale into insignificance compared to all those die number washers. I believe you would try to get all possible varieties, which really negates the old argument that they are too expensive to collect, because the money thrown at minor currency varieties far outweighs that spent on proofs. Cost is a red herring. Most proof pennies are also struck in copper or bronze. Sure there are other metals used, but these are very much in the minority. As one who struggles to relate to this reluctance, I often wonder if it more a case of familiarity and a reluctance to stray into the unknown.

And it's much easier to accumulate than to cull.

The limit for most collections is determined by one of three things - funds, telomeres or patience. Prolong all of these limiting factors and who knows how good the collection would become. Far better to take the view that if you like it, so will someone else, so you'd better buy it. There's nothing wrong with having gaps in a collection as it always gives you something to go for. Spread the net wide enough and you will always be able to find something. I've been stuck at around 50% complete for a while now as I discover more criteria that I can fill. These are usually the result of me looking for an excuse to squeeze another too nice to sell coin into the collection, even though it didn't tick any existing criteria on the list.