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eBay's automatic translation doesn't always work. Smelling of menthol... http://www.ebay.fr/itm/EXTREMELY-RARE-1887-M-SHIELD-SOVEREIGN-MELBOURNE-MINT-BRITISH-GOLD-COIN-R3-/361328349737?hash=item5420d91229:g:XWcAAOSwPcVVitHq

I think the problem is that I would not be willing to pay that much of a premium for what could have been a bad day making proofs at the mint, whilst it may also realistically just be an early strike of a currency example. If I am to convince myself I have bought a proof and the premium that they command, I expect its classification to be undeniable...like the specimen above.

As far as I'm concerned, that's neither matt nor proof. This is a matt proof 1908 (and looks like one too);

Dont think i have twisted it that far

This is at the heart of the problem. The EU in its various forms has been in existence for 60 years, but any strengthening of the institution has never been accompanied by any accountability to the people it dictates to. At no point has there been a call for political unity, but that hasn't stopped them quietly increasing their power over national legislation to make the unaccountables the de-facto political rulers. They actually sit well alongside the various central committees in those paragons of democracy such as China or North Korea - a centrally managed political and economic system, with a toothless parliament put in place to rubber stamp official policy. Sorry, but I see little difference in the two scenarios when it comes to legislation and accountability. This referendum has been a large wake-up call for those at the centre of Europe because big Dave did the unthinkable - he decided to ask the voters what they think. As a consequence, Europe is now in uncharted waters because the status quo was always to act without reference to voters. Europe will change following the referendum irrespective of the outcome, but the underwear soiling problem for the eurocrats is that the outcome of the referendum is not in their control. This means the normal procedure of having a second referendum in the event of an inappropriate outcome is not an option and, worryingly for them, people might now demand a voice across the continent. They will have difficulty putting the genie back in the bottle. They don't currently have an outline plan for central accountability because nobody wants the gravy train to arrive at the destination, and then they wonder why anti-EU sentiment is running so strongly. The point that is frequently missed is that this issue is not for most people a case of spouting nationalistic rhetoric. It isn't about immigration, though most would like to see at least some measure of control at our borders. It isn't because half the citizens of this country hate foreigners - they don't. What they do hate is power associated with a lack of accountability. Parallels with fat cats anyone? Anyway, too much scaremongering going on as to the consequences of us leaving. Frankly, the west is in the mire unless it gets its act together. That is easier to do at a national level for all countries rather than the one size fits all EU.