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would they? Farage said he would push for a second referendum beck in may, if the result was 52-48 remain. From the guardians comments section: If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost. Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron. With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership. How? Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor. And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew. The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction. The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50? Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders? Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated. If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act. The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice. When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take. All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign. this has brought up discussion elsewhere.

Scott's reply has to be put in the context of what it is - a piece in a left of centre newspaper that is anti-Tory as a matter of principle. Nobody has ever said this will be easy. If Cameron didn't want the referendum, he shouldn't have allowed it in the manifesto. The simple fact is that a majority have chosen the politically incorrect option. As has been said before, the right outcome for the wrong reasons. Had the gross failings of the EU been highlighted, then they could also have been cited as a good reason for withdrawal. If the EU hadn't operated in the way it does, I could easily have voted in favour of it - except that I never had a chance to vote for it because votes are too democratic. It's time to cut out the squabbling and move on.

I could live with that ... in the meantime I'm going back to watching Fatboy Slim play at Glasto on the iplayer...

I think it's fine to cite democracy. However it seems pretty clear that some people voted with little understanding. You could say that happens in any political vote. But the issue of reducing immigration was one factor in some people's decision to vote to leave and Nigel Evans' claim of "some misunderstanding" about this throws into question whether those voters might have voted differently had they had more information. There's also the minor issue that the referendum has no legal standing whatsoever. The government appears to have omitted anything that would force them to act in a particular way when drafting the necessary paperwork. In fact, in retrospect, the whole thing seems badly drawn up, since setting a percentage of votes for it to be carried either way (as proposed in the new petition) would have silenced some critics. Yes, the petition (also) carries no legal power. But it might be difficult for the government to ignore it if the number of signatories reaches 4millon+ as that would represent over 10% of those voting. No small beer. So I can see some delays before anything significant happens. Yes, Cameron said he will invoke Article 50 .. but he's leaving. And as Remain supporters included MPs from all parties I believe we can expect some lively debate before anything at all happens. Particularly as there's no evidence that anyone in government made any real plans for what to do if the public voted as they did. It seems likely it was assumed 'common sense' would prevail and that would be an end to it. And then there's Scotland. And Northern Ireland. And to a lesser extent Gibraltar, London and Birmingham. All with a majority Remain vote. So it seems to me as if there is a rather large space. And for now, all we can do is watch it. Popcorn anyone?

If that petition (or the ardent remain MPs that are hoping to initiate a similar 2nd referendum drive within Parliament) come to any fruition then I'm afraid I've lost all faith in this country's democracy. The problem with the establishment and the EU in general in my opinion is that it has a very closed way of thinking, 'think correctly, as we do, or your views are erronous and thus not valid' and then they resort to dirty tactics such as throwing out labels of derision; 'racist', 'sexist' or 'homophobic' or whatever. The EU really comes across as an Orwellian superstate in the making, it's scary how they speak for you and try to change your mind and way of thinking, using every tool at their disposal, including linguistic changes. I feel an enormous sense of relief that Leave won, but also trepidation that somehow the remain camp will try to alter, delay, stall and try and win the 52% of voters around to their way of thinking over the next two, three or four years. The quicker the cessation is set in motion the happier I will feel. There is the all too real danger of letting the momentum slow over the next two years and stall and then a remain coup attempt to force another referendum or some technical vote to halt the process before completion. I also feel a little annoyed about the comments in the media about older voters ruining the younger generations future. In actual fact I would consider myself a younger voter and I certainly think it a move in the right direction not the ruining of my and subsequent generations futures. It was a strike for democracy, the right to vote for the MPs directly and not have them overruled by some foreign bureaucrat who you never could have voted for even if you had wanted to. I also feel that finally I have had the chance to vote on this issue, I wasn't born in 1975 when the last referendum was held, so it was finally nice to have my say on an issue that has been a core issue for me for the past twenty years.

sorry mate but racism shouldn't be acceptable in todays day and age in any form.

Women's tokens were replaced by buisness cards left in phone boxes.I know a chap who collected these

I collect 17th century tokens with a focus on unusual issuers ie the one token I have is the only known issuer whose profession was a rat catcher, but also collect tokens issued by women. I really don't have a focus on particular locales.

Megan did indeed have a shop trading as World Coins in Broad Street. The dealer was David Mason and as you say he emigrated (to Spain). I may be wrong, but I believe he may be back in the UK now. He did post on introductory basis on this site somewhere about a year or two ago - maybe with a list of coins for sale, in which case it may have been in the For Sale thread.

Afternoon all, Greetings from West Yorkshire. Brand new to the hobby and having lurked around a couple of collecting forums over the past few weeks / months I happily stumbled upon the mine (mint?) of wisdom that is predecimal. Thought I'd hang around here for a while. As with all newbies, I've been trying to pin down my focus / interests a bit (albeit not too narrowly.) Contemplated diving head first into ancients but received a number of warnings that it's an area that's particularly unforgiving to the beginner - with tourist fakes and forgeries abound. Picked up a few decent books, including a couple of Rotographic titles and was thinking of picking up 'Coins and Tokens of the Possessions and Colonies of the British Empire,' if anyone has any feedback on that one? Initially, I'm leaning towards the faded grandeur of the British Empire and thought that putting together a modest collection of coinage from around the empire from a given year (e.g. 1900) would be a decent place to start and would encourage further study. I've already picked up tonnes of information from this forum but any advice on the above would be greatly appreciated. Ta / Mark