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I was really excited to send my first two Sixpences purchased off to NGC for grading (a 1909 and 1910 EdVII). They were in high grade (pAS) and I was hopeful of a high MS for both. Here are images of the raw coins... I checked NGC's site yesterday and the grades had come back. The 1909 received a MS 63+ and the 1910 a UNC Details - Surface Hairlines. As this was the first Details grade I'd ever received for a coin submitted to NGC, my general attitude could best be described as the sound of air quickly rushing out of a balloon. Here are images of the graded coins from NGC (strange lighting on the coins)... So my question to you good people is this, "What do I do with this?" What would you do? I'm working to build a graded date run and I'm not sure I want the final year of the run to be an UNC Details coin. Do you keep this as part of the run or now go back out and buy another? I'm a bit gun-shy about buying raw again as both of these coins looked great and came from a reputable dealer. I (and I think I speak for "we") spend hard-earned money and a good deal of it for these coins and as I see it, when it comes back in Details grade, I feel the value isn't there anymore for the money spent. Are Details grades from TPG's just the random landmines we have to accept from time to time when collecting numismatics? I'm interested in your thoughts. Thanks for taking the time to read and comment.

Sorry for any confusion Mike - that's the ex-Nordle collection one that Pete's offering for sale. He asked me to stick the picture up and I was too lazy to type as well. You're right though - it is a very nice strike.

It was a sea change in legislation. A tenner to set up a company is a real incentive to go into business. It's no different to today when you can set up a company with 2 paid up £1 shares, and a cheque to a business that does all the paperwork for considerably less than £100.

I think it is more likely to be struck as a result of the changes in legislation in 1844 or 1856 which allowed companies to be incorporated other than by Royal Charter in the first case, or with limited liability in the second. These were major changes in the legal structures of a typical business, which introduced the concept of limited liability and so led to an expansion of business. To issue a token highlighting the new status of a company would be perfectly normal, and no different to a shop giving out branded advertising. Joint Stock Companies were set up country wide. Wiki is helpful here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Stock_Companies_Act_1844

I did have a look at this one too thinking it was an unofficial farthing but it isn't. its some kind of token though

And the 'COPY' and 'WRL' stamps are both there on the reverse, but both are deliberately, no doubt, photographed upside down.

Properly described as not hammered. Should probably also say not milled either. But cast doesn't sell very well when they shouldn't be.

Any ideas on this one please. 13 mm across.

Agreed - and is ridiculous, as you're buying a coin which could be sold anywhere, not furniture from IKEA or Oak Furnitureland.

Totally agree. I often get directed to their website searching for certain coins. The prices are outrageous. Your paying for a brand name when you buy from them.

Delusional is the first word that springs to mind.

IMO jester you will learn more from the rejected / details one than any returned ok. Its better to find out after only buying a couple Keep it for now ,study it and look out for the problem on any future ones you may wish to purchase.

This post will probably open a big can of worms. If you definitely want a graded date run, you have set your own criteria, so will have to bite the bullet and buy another. It really depends on what you want as the US market is firmly addicted to slabs, and dare I say it, afraid to contradict the 'experts'. You bought the coin because it looked good, and for most people, that will and should be the determining reason. Personally, I think people should collect for pleasure, and not as an investment. If you are thinking along the lines of the second, then you will have to go for higher grades, as that is what the 'investor' is looking for. The phrase on the reverse of the details slab says it all. 'Details grade does not determine value' implies the converse, i.e. a graded number will dictate the price you must pay. Clearly this is nonsense, as no two coins are the same, and by extension do not necessarily pass the 'does it look nice?' audition, even if the TPG thinks they are equal. The top end of the US market, or those trying to outdo the other slab collectors in the competitive most highly graded type sets promoted by the TPGs, is driven by someone else's opinion, and not that of the person who is spending the money. To a large extent, slabbing is a triumph of marketing over a willingness on the part of the collector to do the necessary spadework. Horses for courses, I'm afraid. Yes, a TPG submission is a bit of a lottery. However, for those who collect the coin rather than the number, slabs can offer countless opportunities to acquire incorrectly identified coins; or correctly identified coins, but in a slab too lowly graded to attract the money irrespective of its appeal. From a personal perspective, maybe 20% of the hundred or more slabs I have bought have fallen into one of these two categories, with lower MS numbers frequently looking better than the higher graded examples from named collections, the latter of which apparently deserve a better rating. And a details or maybe a VF or whatever grade on a coin where I am struggling to find any suitable example is a no-brainer, with bargains aplenty. That can be really good. Even if you are firmly on the slabbing route, there is nothing wrong with buying raw coins if you have familiarised yourself with what constitutes an uncleaned, naturally toned, and basically untampered with, example. For the beginner it is a steep learning curve with mistakes necessarily being made to provide the experience of what a 'good' coin looks like, but it gets easier with time. i.e. just like everything else in life. It is the numismatic equivalent of the saying, 'the harder I practice, the luckier I get'. Slabbing attempts to remove this learning curve by saying 'you don't need to know, just accept what we say', leading to a healthy income for the TPGs with their captive adherents. Ultimately, the decision is for you to decide what you want. Collecting isn't a p'ing competition, just something for personal satisfaction and interest.

Horible but clear

That's unusual.

There is no appreciable output of evasion pieces after they were banned by Parliament a few years before this coin's date. Coins have always been copied, but a decade or more before this the main reason was to facilitate trade due to the copper shortage arising from the Napoleonic War. By 1826, copper supplies were stable and tbh I'm struggling to think of any examples. To my mind it has to be either an advertising token or some type of play money, probably struck in the late 19th century at the earliest, or certainly after the large coppers had been demonetised in 1869.

On the not entirely convincing point that the date seen is contemporary, 20 grams is in the same ballpark as the intrisic value of a penny. You don't make a forgery for what you could get for scrap. Only if it commands a premium would you make it which says something a bit later struck for collectors. By that time you are past the major issues of copper tokens.

Not a clue.

You have just made a very good case for collecting the unspendable.