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Many thanks for the pics @Descartes much appreciated! I was discussing the Henry 5a3 with Rob Page today, and he was also telling me it has the scarcer reverse (a possible crossover from class 4, making it potentially an early class 5) and has no example recorded in the Brussels hoard. He’s just put it up on his site which is rather nice! http://www.henry3.com/london---5a3.html He was also telling me that there’s a book to come before the year’s out, a shared project with a friend of his, so that’ll be on my radar.

So by making the coin blue, you improve the coin to a state of perfection? Shurely shome mishtake.

And the B-side

Nice 1863 penny - one day only - sensible offers only.

For the record, CGS's death certificate:

Absolutely, Stu, will do! If his website is anything to go by, he’ll be selling a lot of copies, and very likely become the new name by which we and various auction houses will categorise our/their coins! Looking forward to it!

For some reason it only posted half of my message... Congrats on your coin making it to the page - it deserves it - it's a gem!

I would definitely be interested in buying the book when it comes out too!

Been digging around to see what info. I can add to my Class 5a3 Henry. What has turned out to be interesting is it has the less common reverse for this class, being very open and having the larger 14 pellet per quarter inner circle. I managed to find a reverse die match on Rob Page’s site www.henry3.com which confirms a pellet on the last ligated N for me, as well as providing him with some additional information on the second quarter, which his illustrated example doesn’t have. sharing the love! Oh, and would anyone be happy to post up an image of the H3 page in spink (S1367a) - as up to date a copy as poss? They keep updating the numbers, and my old thing (2013) only has S1367 (no S1367a).

Unfortunately I can't agree that the photo is in any way deceptive. The colouration of these coins (there are many more on the website), especially on the proofs, are exactly the fake colouration blue that I have unfortunately had too much experience of. Often a darker glossy blue for the currencies and a more brilliant royal blue for the copper and bronze proofs(interestingly, any lustrous areas appear less affected, still usually orange/red). Here's an interesting example that I mentioned recently to someone via a conversation: check out the Cheshire Collection/Goldberg auction 2005. This is still on the web and can be accessed via Google typing in Goldberg and Cheshire collection. Anyway, Goldberg have a good gush about Lot 3032, the 1853 copper proof halfpenny PF65BN, saying "brilliant mauve and iridescent blue toning" and ending their description with "maybe Queen Victoria herself saved this little darling"! Steady on, old chaps.... Well, I bought that exact coin from Spink Numismatic Circular in late 2001, and guess what...it was a dull orange colour, no trace of the colour it turned into a couple of years later. I sold it to a local dealer a year or so later who then sold it on, still as a dull orange proof. I can tell it's the same coin due to tiny marks and toning patterns being identical, as it was photographed (in black and white) in the original Spink Circular. The Cheshire collection's 1853 proof penny and farthing looked somewhat similar. I presume that once doctored, these coins can never be returned to their original state, so for a company to be buying up a significant number of British and Irish proofs and basically painting them irreversibly, is rather depressing. I wonder if the proverbial will hit the fan in a few years, or whether it will keep being the emperor's new clothes! Having said that, I don't disagree with Jaggy that some coins on the website are very decent and sometimes quite reasonably priced. Like everyone else, sometimes they'll have gems, sometimes turkeys.....It also helps if you can recognise the coins from previous appearances in the trade, then decide accordingly. Bottom line - be careful!

Does that mean the one with OBV 12 sold at LCA for £1500 was definately not one ? I only ask as someone must of thought it looked right

Surely they've got the decimal point in the wrong place....£23.99 is more like it!

top one is a 5g off my head and 5 c for the bottom one

cer Certainly! Atlas seems to use Heritage alot (to source and to sell stock that's been sitting) Estimates on their lots always overly high. They seem to look after them. Like someone said previously, they seem to have a very wealthy budget.

Just amazed at some of the lengthy responses here, simply brilliant! welcome! My thoughts would be you need to decide what it is you like about coins first. Is it the thought of connecting with history, or do you just like pretty things? A lot of people enjoy collecting type sets of all the different monarchs? That would expose you to a) some of the cheaper coins if you start with Elizabeth and work back, and b ) give you the opportunity to start cutting your teeth on something, as you’ll likely change your collecting area a dozen times until you finally settle with something you like. As you work your way back, there will come a point where you might just want to collect one nice example coin from each monarch, could get a tad expensive otherwise. Dont forget to buy a couple of nice hammereds to see if you like them...before you finally settle down to collect pennies! Enjoy!

Crikey. Talk about a transformation. Is it trick photography or has the coin been treated?

Yes, absolutely, and this piece was gilded before the plate was cut as the edges do show - there is no doubt about this. However, I am excited about the gilt since I am surmising whether this was a piece from the "two guilt wine bowles" that are documented as being part of the "Plate delivered to Mr Edward Standishe, Alderman, by consent to be sold for the townes use and to supply their p'sent want of money...." (quoted from the minutes of a meeting of the (Newark) Corporation held on May 15, 1646 and detailed in, "The Obsidional Money of the Great Rebellion", 1907, Philip Nelson, M.D.) Obviously it is very possible that other gilt plates might have been used as well but this reference is specific right down to the fact that two gold-plated wine bowls were cut up to literally, make money. This is why I find this series so interesting - there is a tangible link with particular people caught up in a bloody struggle. Frank

Wow! They are indeed the same coin, how on earth did one become the other? Perhaps the vendor used their ‘conservation’ service! Jerry

sold by dnw and described as "some minor staining on reverse, otherwise about extremely fine with a hint of original colour Sold by Atlas and graded PCGS MS63BN

Interesting what Jaggy says about Atlas. I used to be impressed with their coins, until I realised where some of their copper coins come from, how they've changed colour, and their mark-ups in some cases being phenomenal. For instance 1849 penny, sold DNW 12/12/17 £1700, stained on one side but reasonable coin. Now just sold by Atlas at nearly $6K and it's changed to a glossy dark blue colour! Obligingly slabbed of course by PGCS as MS63BN. It's still on the website but perhaps not for much longer. Check it out while you can. Amazingly enough it is the same coin. Also, 1825 proof penny, sold Stacks Bowers 13 January $950 Lot 20358 hammer PF63 PGCS, now "blued up" and on at nearly $6K, good old PGCS again upgraded to PF64+. Distinctive die-flaw and spot on obverse, so easy to recognise. 1805 Irish silver halfpenny, untouched thankfully, now $7,500, $1600 hammer Spink Auction 339, Lot 219 14/1/2018 There are other examples on the website currently. I don't know what other people think, but the combination of huge mark-ups in some cases on the back of chemically enhancing the coin's appearance then getting it re-slabbed and upgraded, is sharp practice in my book.

Absolutely fantastic find, Richard. Very, very well done. Probably just about the best F28 out there.

It's all they need to do. There are sufficient nerds around to ensure that is unlikely to slip under the radar.

Maurice Bull's Charles I Half Crowns vols. 3, 4 & 5 covers that denomination. Morrieson's articles in the BNJ cover the various mints, Lyall's Chester in the SNC, Allen's W/SA in the BNJ, Hird's work on Newark, specialist denomination volumes will have the appropriate coins. Then there is private research.

Something's gone wrong (for me) in the Copper Tokens thread, so I will post this newbie here, seeing as it's a penny ... 1796 Birmingham copper penny token by Thomas Wyon

Quite a pleasing 1849 shilling

A few that have been culled to follow.

found this reference regarding the 37 crowns

I wouldn't touch these with a very long pole. IMO, there are just too many around both graded and ungraded with likely some very nice ones out "in the wild". Even more mystifying are the proof late Vicky gold from 1887 and '93. Yikes!

Agreed. He identified mine as a pattern (on the left below - note the position of the '7' and the first 8 struck over a higher 8). A very small variation but typical of the year, which is probably why so many have gone undetected.

I never slab anything so I am unfamiliar with the issues. The 1877 I can agree their point. The 1911 maybe, but a bit harsh. The 1898 does not look particularly cleaned to me - at least not in an unpleasant way. Confirms my decision against slabbing I'm afraid!

This week's big spend - £2.95 BIN plus £1.50 postage. I know condition is crap but am I right in thinking F7 - raised lines on shield, rock to left of lighthouse seller's picture

I dropped my South Sea Bubble and it burst.

As well as making sure that you have good virus protection in place (I use Avast, which is free, and seems to be pretty good) there is a useful tip that not everyone realises: If you hover the mouse pointer over a link without clicking, you should see the actual address it is linking to at the bottom of your browser. (At least that is where it appears on my Chrome browser - it may vary with others.) If the address that appears does not match what you are expecting, don't click! So if you are expecting a link to Barclays Bank and the address that appears starts ivans.bank.ru - you know what is going to happen!

Well I have achieved another upgrade to my farthing collection today, so here it is - 1882H 7+F (nothing fancy I think).

I was speaking with an 88 year old coin dealer earlier today and the subject of 1951 crowns was discussed. This dealer told me that he got married during the Festival of Britain celebrations in London. He explained to me the reasons for the two different colour boxes that the Crowns were issued in, Green & Magenta. The Green boxes were sold only in the Festival Hall, The Magenta boxes were sold in the Festival Pleasure Gardens on the opposite bank of the Thames.

I agree 100% with what you say, but have issues with the TPGs who won't call a spade a spade. If a coin is hairlined from cleaning, then call it hairlined. If a coin has been polished to death, then call it polished. If a coin has been cleaned without damaging the surfaces then it has still been cleaned. Just be honest, that's all I'm saying. After all, they offer a cleaning service in all but name. They also seem happy enough to slab coins that have been dipped, and more than the odd repaired coin has passed the audition.

A rose by any other name... It's cleaning. They call it "conservation" because cleaning sounds bad. I'm with your grandfather. But if there is a problem which is only going to get worse (e.g. verdigris, bronze disease, zinc pest) then I think intervention is necessary. After all, if you do nothing it will eventually destroy the coin. So what choice is there?

Hey could you send me the flyer - would love to see and read the full document kingsbookshop@hotmail.com thanks in advance !

Big Bang has a lot to answer for. I'm absolutely certain that Sheldon had nothing to do with the scale as he certainly wouldn't cope with 11 different categories of a statement of fact, namely, uncirculated. It's one of these sort of/very/extremely unique scenarios.

The royal mint have just announced a new set of four NEW potter 50p coins , groan What a surprise, NOT! I wonder if there is any betting at ladbrokes on these coins becomeing an annual event

My take is that it's NOT the same coin and you'd be justified in returning it on those grounds. There are many many signs that get my suspicions going, but here's just three: 1. the teeth on the right coin (from the V anti-clockwise to the left hand edge of the bust) are thin compared to the greater wear on the left hand coin 2. the totally different style of the JEB - particularly the E which is curved like a reversed 3 on the left, and a normal E on the right, sloping to the right 3. the upper knot on the pendant ribbon has a complete incuse line on the right, which can barely be seen at all on the left. Add to that the scratch on the last A of GRATIA (not present on the left), and a faint doubling of the ear lobe on the right, and I'd say you've been the victim of possible malpractice.

unlike this piece of crap that landed on my doorstep this morning. How on earth they can make a picture look so different is beyond me. Hard to believe it's the same coin

1887 continues with the somewhat harshly treated 1+A Shilling ( I love the way it photographs though!)

well they ain't the prettiest ever seen but £20 wasn't a bank breaker

Picked this up. Unlisted EBRITANNIAR 1881 sixpence. Although very subtle I hope you can see the underlying E beneath the B it's a little offset tilting anticlockwise

Yep

With the increasing plethora of off-kilter stuff the Royal Mint is producing I have decided to restrict myself to coins from circulation only. I feel I am being taken for a mug when they bring out more and more outlandish products at exorbitant prices. I think they are in danger of "killing the goose that lays the golden egg" in the same way the Post Office has killed the First Day cover market.

Not sure how common it was, but I understand it was done to preserve lustre. If so, it's not worked in this case ! Frightening what used to be recommended for coins.