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I think perhaps we should leave Larry alone. He didn't start the offending topic about Water Aid, and the person who did has now apologised for certain statements made attacking other members. To that extent we should draw a line under all this, as it's not serving any purpose. I doubt that the politics of the majority of members here strike much if any sympathy with me, but this is a coins forum, and we'd be better off banning politics and religion outright. Even in the 'Nothing whatever to do with coins' forum. Here we can meet on a numismatic footing and let's keep it that way.

yes I agree that balanced approaches are best and I hope that is what we may have more of. In that one instance and considering the number of active participants that last thread came across as very much slanted in that direction especially the ease in which it blossomed. Causes are important and adherence does not preclude balanced participation or view. I have many causes I can still be very flexible and happy to apologise if I get something wrong but then when I say something I try to consider with some care what I write in a forum in order not to cause offence. In my own ideas and theories there are many elements that are so off the deep end that I cannot wonder some find them strange I stick to them as a matter of commitment to idea which may take some years to follow through on. In the coin world as in any other world there are many new and exciting ways to discover something, be that varieties or strange patterns but at the core of that is willingness to cause no offence and to remain open minded. I will however show I have enough confidence not to be bullied, I won't keep my mouth shut if I see something offencive.... that is simply the way I show my life experience in all types of forums.

You shouldn't be too surprised that coin forum members value little round lumps of metal, nor that they are the reason for the members being on here in the first place. Most forums are populated with members that have an interest in the relevant subject. You are wrong to suggest that the majority are far right of centre. There might be a majority that are more right than left, but the overwhelming majority are close to the centre. Most of us without any political affiliations take a pick and mix approach as we are able to recognise that both sides bring something to the argument. Adherents to a cause don't have that option available.

Members may also know that in addition to this large rose reverse which is paired with the strange overdate obverse, there is also a second re-cut large rose reverse variety (different die) which is paired with a small date obverse (pictures attached for information). This small date variety to my knowledge always displays the die crack though numeral 5 and, on the reverse, has the ghosting above Britannia’s right hand, and a single mark below left knee. Also note the slanted colon after DEF, which is the type given by MG on his website as CP1858F…..for those of you perhaps seeking this rare variety:- http://www.michael-coins.co.uk/cp1858DEF.htm

100% Spot on Peck and could not agree more.

You're welcome DrLarry, somehow I knew that YOU would like it

yes and it works very well in many Indian and Malawian settings allowing individuals to take out tiny loans and build something for themselves and their family and this in turn often feeds back into the community

Video may be of interest, hope so. I had a Firefly, now expired, was comparable with a Dino-Lite. Looking to purchase a new one. Might try one of these.

There is circumstantial evidence for the 1839 proofs being issued up to the early 1880s because ESC 3249 (1738) is a 3rd young head sixpence with an 1839 reverse. The third young head was introduced in 1880. However, the mint equipment was upgraded in 1882 when the old Boulton & Watt presses were replaced. It's only conjecture, but there may have been a few sets of 1839 proofs issued prior to the refurbishment when the old dies may have become redundant - not being compatible with the new equipment? If so, the number made could possibly equal the number of these anomalous sixpences extant. ESC rates them as R5 (5-10 known), which is feasible. In terms of the penny, it is therefore likely that 1839 dies were always available. The halfpenny proof die was replaced on at least 2 occasions, with both 39 over 41 & 39 over 43 known.

As well as a 9 I think there was a 7 under there once as there is a pointy bit out of the top right of the 8. I suspect this die might have been recut more than once?

Small rose Pete.

Now, with my anorak on, I did capture ebay images of every 1841 to 1860/59 penny listed on ebay, every day for a full 5 years. I am gradually compiling stats on varieties, but have yet to do this for the 1858 large rose pieces. These images were captured before the large rose variety started to become better known by collectors (i.e. after London Coins sold one in Fine 35 for £600 hammer at their June 2012 auction) so I think when I get round to doing these stats they will reflect the full population quite well. My memory is that there were around a half dozen of each of the two types sold on ebay in 5 years, and that none of them was advertised as such!

An explanation of it being a 9 was given on this forum link by Michael Gouby back in 2009. Scroll down to last text:- http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=712566&STARTPAGE=1 Whilst I don't have an electron microscope (did actually use one on Apollo moon samples) this is the best picture I have of this overdate using my digital 140x

I contacted ebay and sent a report in

Mike Vosper has added the siege piece replica seller to his hall of shame. I thought seeing as he's making a habit of selling them I'd get his details put on the rogues gallery so to speak.

It's most certainly a fake. I posted that one up on Sunday. He's previously sold a fake Newark siege coin also. It seems to a common theme now for some people to be selling fakes as well as geniune coins. It seems to confuse "some" people into thinking they are a safe and trustworthy seller. That coins the same as the rest with the fake toning sprayed on. They are so easy to spot with or without the toning. They are being made by Dorchesters. If you look at there example on their website you can see the same mark below the 6. http://dorchesters.com/charles-i-pontefract-siege-shilling-lozenge?filter_name=Pontefract&filter_description=true

I think as soon as you mention "Pontefract Siege Piece" in the same paragraph as field_walker you know what the answer is going to be! It is not my area but there do appear to be casting bubbles in the pictures. To add to what Rob has said, these things used to be mega-rare, and now they turn up all the time. To me that can only mean one thing - they are being produced to fill the demand in the market. I would not buy one on Ebay at all - and I would want to have a lot of provenance before I bought from a good auction house.

Having gone to the effort of looking up the prices in Spink for a Fine and VF Pontefract, you don't then list a VF example at a third of the fine price. Any auction house would give a better return than that, unless of course you know it isn't the real deal, in which place eBay is the best place to go to marry up the deceitful with the ignorant.

I'm not sure I agree with you about the kids losing interest in history I would say it is in the ascendancy kids have been inspired by programmes like Horrible Histories it's just th interest is different. They have (thankfully) moved away from the tedium of learning long disconnected lists of facts. Instead they enjoy more social history and in many ways have a better understanding of history at the common level than many older people. Hence I think we might have a job on our hands if we approach collecting just as collecting long lists of coins. I think we should begin to write coins into the fabric of this somewhat dumbed down version of history (not my opinion) in that way we can engage them at a level of the people that held the most money and exchanged it... The common npeople..... Instead of being a very snobbish approach we can have a lot of fun being imaginative and creative. One good way is to ask primary school teachers if, when they study a historic period, if they would be interested in you visiting with a load of coins the kids can handle and imagine with. It is our duty as I have said to create the future collectors by stimulating their interest. The curriculum periods are, fire of London, tudors, victorian social history punishment and social injustice, roman Britain, Greeks, aztecs, Egyptians, civil war, African west Africa cultures. Then of course there are the high schools. Think outside the money box and show them the con nections coins can give them.