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Crikey, I've never known it so quiet in here. You can almost see the tumbleweed drifting across the screen. So I'll take this opportunity to ask a question. I did ask it once before, but I don't think anybody noticed it. Both Peck & Bramah both say that the 1860 over 59 was "never issued for circulation". All 32,256 of them. I don't see how this assertion can possibly be factually correct. If they were never issued for circulation, how come a) they weren't melted down, and b) the public managed to get access to them? It just doesn't make sense - or is there something very obvious I'm missing? Meanwhile........

I agree with the notion that there was a small but urgent demand for pennies earlier in 1860, so the 1860/59s were minted in a hurry and issued - maybe, as Mike suggests - only to a few banks. I've said more than once before, and no doubt I'll have to say it again, the bronze issue for 1860 was VERY LATE. Why do I say this? Because the mintage, for a completely new issue, is way below what it should have been to replace copper pennies. Look at the huge mintages for 1861/62/63 - you'd expect something similar for the first year too, but not so. The 1860/59 copper s no doubt met an urgent need that may have been relatively small, but clearly there. I simply cannot believe there was never an intention to strike those coppers for circulation.

So based on the images and the distinguishing features between what I have described as type I and type II- And seriously these distinctions will likely be further delineated should there be collector interest- your first and fifth coins are Type II; the second and fourth are Type I; the third coin is alittle challenging based on the image as the central details are not quite as well defined. Please do not take that as a criticism of the image. I see that one as a type II. What is truly amazing... at least in my view... is that there has not been a further study of the die varieties associated with this coin that has either been done or found its way to the mainstream for collectors to appreciate.

He’s my mate Stu’s nephew, a good family, military dad (recently knighted) and nice but rather frightening mother. I am currently renovating his dad’s lightweight land-rover, now mine (for only £700!). Stu is my detecting buddy, it seems to be in the family. Jerry

They stopped sending me catalogues too after I had gone a few auctions without buying. I suppose the expense is prohibitive if they feel a sale is unlikely. Which it is, given their current offerings. Jerry

There have been a couple of pretty ropey ones put through SNC over the decades. I can definitely remember one in fine or worse. Perhaps it should have marketed as - "almost unknown in this state of preservation". I'll look it up. I can't imagine they weren't initially produced for circulation (though what we see today must have mainly been put aside as Rob says) as they are a rather substandard issue - askew die axis, bad die clashing seen on all specimens, degraded lettering (more apparent on some than others), the partially blocked date and flatness of Britannia's breast on many. Also, the only instance in the copper or bronze series where two numbers in the date are overstruck rather than the more prevalent one (OK, for the pedants - excepting the 43 or 41(?)/39 proof halfpennies). So all very makeshift. Due to the massive bronze production of the early 1860's, most copper would have been exchanged or put aside by 1864 I would guess.

I would postulate that a handful were tucked away by collectors, taken from circulation. Just as the people today will collect anything about to be demonetised or superseded for whatever reason, so it is likely the same applied in 1860 - collectors' habits haven't changed. If you have a small number (32K) of 60/59 coppers out of the millions circulating from previous years, that had done the rounds for a few months until the bronze version appeared, I would suggest - cue an instant 'I'd better keep one of these' from collectors who would be the most likely to spot and keep for posterity and you have a small population of preserved but slightly worn 1860/59s. Assuming that the copper pennies were withdrawn as soon as they could be replaced, it would soon remove the majority from circulation. The fact that they were demonetised in 1869 does not mean that there were no withdrawals prior to this date. More likely is that they would be replaced at a rate approximating to the value issued, and that would likely have started immediately after the bronze coins entered circulation. The copper would probably be used for the bronze alloy needed.

I've never seen a specimen well worn through circulation as per every other date so that must mean something ? Although, if the bronze coins were issued soon after, maybe they wouldn't have circulated for very long anyway. So, actually, I've added nothing of value to the debate.