Leaderboard

Very pleased with this 1854/3 penny bought from the recent December LCA. It's in cracking condition and even has some slight lustre on the obverse. I can't do a close up, but I have enlarged the obverse as best I can. Shows the typical slightly blurry and worn hair appearance at the front, and clearing to more normal at the back. The normal characteristics of a 4/3 are there in the date, showing to right and left at top of the 4, and then in the space between the lower vertical of the 4 and the left side of the cross bar. There was a slight doubt as the hair looked better in the LCA pic, and of course they didn't do a date close up either. Took a chance on the coin based on description, and pleased I did.

I have just messaged him, maybe others should do likewise. He seems an established EBay dealer, he is probably unaware. Jerry

I have already had a nice reply from ‘Jenni’ thanking me for the info, and stating that she is pulling the coin to have it independently assessed, as she does not sell fakes. An innocent but expensive mistake I suspect sadly. Jerry

I have just read through all 30 pages of the link you added and I am not sure what you think it says. As I read it it outlines the complications between criminal and civil law and the confusions that arise from the human rights issues of the two parties the homeowner and the Burglar. It looks at a number of key cases that have received disproportionate newspaper headlines and campaigns to increase the rights of homeowners to no avail. In all such cases the law remained constant in its approach examining each case on its individual merits. In each case the legal issue under debate is the one of "proportionality" did the homeowner take proportional or disproportional actions to "keep safe" his home. In each case it mentions it found that disproportionate force was applied. At one point a judge quite clearly states that the homeowner has no right to chase the perpetrator down the street and then stab them as he is no longer protecting his home or family against the trespass . In this case (Mr White) several intermittent steps were realised in the action. A decision to get out of his safety of his home. A decision to consider the chase, a decision to start the car, a decision to speed chase with the car, a decision to "ram" or a failure of control"lose control on a bend" a decision to attempt to cause bodily harm. The moment the police arrived he himself remarked something along the lines of "i think I may have done wrong" I am sure you will correct this . Other than to outline the difficulties in such cases the article or paper does nothing other than to equally recognise the actions taken by the homeowner and the intent of the burglar. By breaking into a garage with bolt cutters and stealing the bike the burglars entered into a space not intending to cause harm to the homeowner and the family but to attempt what they saw as a simple act of stealing within common law. Surely just one step up from the "trivial crime of shoplifting" . I may have the story wrong so correct me if I have PLEASE, but I have heard nothing of confrontation and attempt to cause harm. Mr white reacted (as many might ) by disproportionate actions to get back his property. In the face of these cases a poll might well initially have a high popularity rating but in time once the "excitement" has gone ...I am not sure these stats would stack up. Statistics are terrible indicators of reality in polls. We are extrapolating out from a poll of how many? where are the statistics collected? how are they analysed? in other words they are , if ever , an accurate reflection of the general public. 100% of 12 listened to the evidence and decided a verdict of guilt or in the worst scenario 7 out of 12 a majority verdict decided his action was disproportionate. these figures do not illustrate 85% in favour. They are after all just the general public randomly selected. The only question here is then passed to the judge to determine sentence. The court of appeal if it goes there will focus on the judges verdict they may , as mentioned in the article decide to reduce the sentence and suspended for 2 years. One other factor is that the go fund me page was closed down by the administrators who said they had enough and would donate the rest to charity.. Does that mean that they do not intend to appeal the case?

The majority of Daily Mail readers certainly, and similar organs. But where is your evidence that the majority of the public believes this? But this is already the case! All judges - when sentencing - have access to the perp's previous, and sentence accordingly. A first time offender (except for the most serious crimes like murder, kidnap, terrorism, etc) gets a lesser sentence than someone with a list of previous convictions. That's how sentencing guidelines work.