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Sometimes I wonder if I took my degree in Chemistry. Hypo is Sodium Thiosulphate, not Hypochlorite. Duuhhh!!

It also exists with obverse 3, which is rarer than obverse 2. As you indicate, this is the extremely common obverse 6

I agree Richard. The 1858/6 has the smaller numeral 5 font, but all other 1858 overdates have the 5 font which you reference as 'classic' in your first picture above. The only other years which also use that 'classic 5' font are 1856 (some PT's), 1857, 1858 and 1859. It is difficult to see, therefore, how an 1854/3 (which does of course exist), can then become an 1858/4/3, when none of the 4 different 5 fonts used in 1853 are this 'classic 5' style.

They're getting better at this. It's much better than the Victorian bronze pennies.

I'm sure that people on here would be prepared to buy in the UK and post to the US.

When one talks about the possible 1858 overdates, there is an assumption that previous dies from an earlier year were reused with the final digit being altered or over-punched, i.e the 1858 over 3 is an altered die from 1853 (or, as Gouby theorises, 1852). One assumes that the Bramah 25c above also results from these dies or 1854 or even other. The problem is that the 1858 large date, 1858 over 3 and the Bramah 25c are clearly struck with the classic large date 5 with the distinctively shaped pointed top as seen below: (sorry about the different size of images) But 1853 and 1854 (and 1851) pennies, however, were struck with very differently shaped 5s, suggesting that dies from those years were NOT re-used. Unless I'm missing something ?

It has 139 teeth. (My eyes are crossed from counting!) This makes it Obverse 6, the more common one I think. The scarce one he hopes it is is obverse 2, which has 143 teeth.

Just a bog standard 6+G, I'm afraid. The B of Brit is supposed to be close to her head on obv.6.

I think a lot of the varieties put in the book were already catalogued in other books or information given him by other collectors as he mentions in the first copy of "Bronze coinage" only having 2000 halfpennies 1860-1970.The book was a study of dies and the indicators which he then gave a reference and only needed one example to be able to do that. The 1956 Halfpenny F474 R12 1001-2000 ,although collectors fifty years later are only aware of less than 10.

Hm, the B in BRITT looks too close to Victoria's head to be obverse 6, but I don't see an LC WYON either.

Well by 1965 or so only 2% or %3 of bronze pennies were victorian bun pennies so it really must have been a long slog.

For those that aren't sure what we're on about, here is a picture.

Graham Dyer's article in BNJ vol. 52 refers. The numbers are believed to refer to the cumulative total tons of bronze (pennies, halfpennies and farthings) struckfor the numerator, and the cumulative total tons of bronze pennies for the denominator. Using the bronze coin production figures for 1860-8, the various fractions observed provide a very good fit. So in this case, the figure 542 is within the range 498-577 tons struck since 1860 for 1867, and the figure 329 is within the 375 tons of bronze pennies struck up to 1868. Given the mint figures of 41 tons of bronze in 1868, this coin neatly fits the hypothesis.

Members beware! Just spotted this and already got multiple watchers... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/196199224387?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11021.m43.l1120&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=3bb9025c48274b559c9bab40504eb161&bu=43098541495&ut=RU&osub=-1~1&crd=20240120030846&segname=11021 Clearly one of those recent Chinese copies but which has been doctored to appear "circulated". More worrying still is if you search seller's other items he has several other Victorian copper "pennies", all copies, but all doctored to one degree or another to masquerade as something more genuine. ... and just looked at his completed listings and feedback and numerous similar doctored copies of various dates have sold for good money and buyers have left positive feedback. A fool and his money... a little knowledge... and other suitable aphorisms spring to mind. Caveat emptor!

I often wonder how many people actually collect these. TBH I was surprised that 3 people in this thread are interested given the near total lack of interest shown by visitors to the table. I've had a couple pieces in there for 7 or 8 years that nobody has looked at and those that sold off the site all went abroad.