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During the first week of May I spotted a 'Silver Hammered Penny King Edward I' for sale as a Buy-it-now' on Ebay, £38 total including Ebay insurance and 48hr Royal Mail Tracked delivery. As the coin was in fact an Edward III florin coinage penny of Canterbury, and quite scarce, I bought it and tracking showed that the vendor posted it on 10th May. Over the next 48hrs or so it tracked to the Birmingham MC sorting office - where it stayed. After a fortnight I spoke to the vendor who contacted RM and received an unhelpful reply and no coin. After 3 weeks Ebay gave me my money back within 24hrs of my claim as suggested by the vendor and I wrote the coin off mentally with much regret. It is noteworthy that with the refund Ebay actually state that if the purchase is subsequently found it can be kept and they do not have to be informed. Well, it was delivered out of the blue by postie on Thursday! Only 8 weeks in transit! The vendor and I have exchanged several cheerful emails and I get to keep the coin for nothing! As far as I can tell the coin is S1547, N1122 (VR) and DIG Obv 1 rev Ai. Jerry

Then a decent 1863 'open 3' , £30 at Midland Coin Fair.

Whilst the interest in collecting from change may fade away, the interest in rarities, especially nice ones, is likely to be subsumed into the general collector desire for quality rarities seen across all spheres. Otherwise, how do you explain the prices paid for hammered coins, none of which circulated in living memory. Their desirability stems from the history and all coins are part of that same history. Not all denominations have a large following, but one day their turn will come when relative rarities are fully appreciated. Take halfpennies. Much rarer than pennies in top grade because alongside farthings, they were the mainstay of the working class cash economy. That means a high grade example is always a good long term bet given they weren't normally set aside and collected per se. It is a common thread throughout history. Look at Roman sestertii as an example. These were the circulating base coinage of the Roman era, and again, not something the rich and famous would set aside. However, the Bolsena Hoard found in the late 19th century in northern Italy provides ample evidence that even 1700 years ago someone thought them collectable. As the hoard contained a large number of top grade sestertii spanning a few centuries, it beggars belief that they were collected from circulation. The hoard only makes sense as a collection. i.e. we are just the latest in a long history of people who collect from interest, rather than as an investment. As I wrote in my testimony to Cope part 2. We 'met' on ebay. He, as my regular nemesis, eventually asking if I was a copper collector. Silly and obvious really. When we had both bid over twice book on a lustrous 1718 halfpenny that came back in the sale as a 65RB, it was clear that we both appreciated the relative quality of the coin, and how infrequently they turn up. High grade modern pennies will also fall into that same collectable category once enough have been melted and are no longer readily available, and this might happen sooner than you think. In the past 20 years, I estimate that I have consigned somewhere near a ton of bronze to be melted of all denominations. Why? Because nobody wanted them, so you melt to free up cash. The odd rare piece will have gone through undetected, but the vast majority will have been worth scrap value. I am not alone in having done this. This will increase the relative abundance of the rarities over time. Every dog has its day, and as far as I can see, always will do so on a recurring basis.

I now have my own New model crown and a total beauty it is to I got it for less than three figures so am really happy its in about EF grade

One of the fundamental rules of collecting is that it is entirely down to individual taste, with no right or wrong. A person unable to see alternative views is too blinkered or has an unhealthy personal interest in the outcome. It is also a given that if someone writes down their research on paper, some people will collect said identified differences. One or more of the latter group will then see anomalies and try to rationalise them, and so the research continues. The logical conclusion therefore is that eventually, we will able to identify nearly all of the coin dies that were ever made. Not 100%, but pretty damn close. As a reference point - great. As a collecting aim - get a life if you want everything, and ask to carry any brownie points into the afterlife, because you will need all the time you have 10x over I can't explain why, but whenever I hear the passionate debates about what is right and wrong and the refusal to back down on a view, I am always reminded of the late Eric Heffer's speech in the Commons concerning the Labour left's hounding of Princess Michael of Kent regarding her father being in the SS during WW2. The basics were along the lines of: I think it important that someone from this side says this. I've never met the woman, have no desire to meet her and I am unlikely to ever do so, but in a democracy, nobody can be held accountable for the actions of their forefathers. So if those trying to make political capital from this would kindly sit down and shut up, we can get on with the business for which we were duly elected. He may have been left wing, but living in a democracy topped his political views By extrapolation, a tolerance of conflicting views ensures that life can continue peacefully, with the only likely damage in numismatics being data overload. I can live with that. The views will always be diverse, only the tolerance varies.

Fully functional teapots hollow spouts and removable lids.

Here's one of mine displaying the same die deterioration. A not uncommon feature on farthings of 1675.

I like that there are variations with the 1799. I have 3 - 5 incuse gunports (which seems to be the most common), 7 relief gunports and plain hull. The best is probably this 5 incuse:

I have been giving my unwanted pennies to a charity shop (animal not human they are too greedy) and when I go in to see how they fared they are always sold out, apparently its youngsters going in to buy them, so maybe its an upward trend, hopefully

The problem with spurious Mint emissions is that a deliberate anomalous product commands a much higher price than a random blank picked up and thrown in the bucket for use. i.e. if you could prove it was a striking specifically tied to a certain mint action, such as trying out a regular mix on a different thickness blank, or a test for a new currency contract from a foreign country, you will do better than the unintended oddball. Wrong flans occur regularly, which is not surprising given the billions of blanks cut every year. Clearly even a hundred wrong'uns would be extremely rare, but in the context of mint operations would only amount to a rounding error if checked for weight. So to consider the above point, it is definitely not common, certainly excessively rare (in the context of a currency issue) and maybe even unique. The problem lies in documentation, because errors are by definition, not struck for the records.

I've just formed an end-of-season football harmony group, called Manhattan Transfer Window. You're welcome.

Thanks both, that is helpful. I will report back... P

Why don't you do that and find out as it is a cheap option? The cameras of the new phones are constantly getting better and you could very well be happy with the results.

Not absolutely everyone then! 😂 Still very happy with my acquisition 🖖

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/127945382130?_skw=1696&itmmeta=01KWV68AKFNDSWCKKGPY94SJ64&hash=item1dca2398f2:g:iPYAAeSw35RqQGXn&itmprp=enc%3AAQALAAAAwGfYFPkwiKCW4ZNSs2u11xDovThOToFz2ZFPxugPA9XSFNn8ZGWTRKC3MuiLJB2vvvikM48JUeNQ5533R99qzPdpkTJiede8k08e1bKo7QPHnPdYirkor3VFy0FOX2Qdv22cpy62ndLBOphkklDDLEyhg7Dorvm0zathn1pNWUCTsodDHQA6DNvLqugFfUYUWRm5YRDRZiZddbZrVpucvMHW9MCW66Ze6LEzfoQ8w6lGoPt4ne1QgIBCoh6HWU%2FLyw%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6aqoebmZw

On the plus side, a lot of the flan issues were ironed out during the decimal patterns by using various metal mixes and flan thicknesses. The presence of almost consistent flan lamination for certain varieties suggests an attempt to standardise minting conditions, more importantly on a series which didn't circulate. The engraving wasn't particularly divergent from the normal currency issues, but the minor fiddling with mixes and also presumably striking forces for the mixes will have helped immensely in arriving at the ideal.

Your picture is too blurred for comment but here are my own pictures from my website: Single exergue with waves almost touching the line and double exergue with waves clear of the line.

Just to add a bit more: the first few years of the changeover to bronze saw a helluva lot of repunching of date digits and legend letters. Bronze is a harder metal than copper, and the coins were thinner in size, so dies got worn relatively quickly. As well as that, the Mint is reported to have experienced a lot of problems caused by the change of metal, which the huge number of varieties (major, minor, and micro) in the first few years can attest to.

Just an oddball. Letters and digits on worn/filled dies were often repaired by re-punching, and not surprisingly these were often slightly misplaced. Of little extra interest unless the wrong punch has been used or the misplacement is extreme. As for the ‘4’ it may just be a die flaw. Jerry

Here is a pair of 1/12 queen Anne flintlock pistols I made. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JRH-9o-P6sg

Here is all the dies I made with the different collars.

An 1889 F127 narrow date,13.5 teeth £200 on Ebay.

An 1874H F69, £17.10 on Ebay.

Finally, after a month of challenge getting BT/Open Reach to repair my landline I at last have acceptable broadband and can post some recent acquisitions. First an example F10 new obverse 2*, £20 at Ebay auction.

Yes, most certainly a worn die. And a truly shocking price which would be way too high even for a good strike UNC example. Here's a much better example at a reasonable price: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/157378763239?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338946167&toolid=20006&loc=&customid=4581527531114051_710033490_o.9beeaa501cf11ef92efac014f4958c05&msclkid=9beeaa501cf11ef92efac014f4958c05

For me it would depend on whether the brightness indicated by the one on the left is a result of polishing to within an inch of it life. I can live with faults if the coin is sufficiently rare, but it isn't. Personally, I would bin (sell) both and put the proceeds towards something better, which would be easy given the number extant. The detail visible has been covered by the previous posts.

Definitely the one on the left. As well as @Coinery's comments, the detail on the reverse is far nicer.

Probably some action in the last minute. Or seconds...

Im not sure if you are on Facebook Chris but there is a couple of groups which you maybe be able to sell items at fixed prices if thats of interest to you. One advantage being no fees. You can search for these groups; British pre-decimal milled coin collectors(1649-1970) British Coins, Hammered, Milled & More.

I can quite see how a snappy descriptor, coupled with just the right level of scarcity, adds a touch of glamour to a particular coin and helps to make it more sought after - whether the V word is carelessly applied or not. Against the dot pennies, the poor old "1915 extra bar penny" doesn't stand much a chance, despite its origins and scarcity being broadly similar (IMO).

Ooh, flagship phone 😀 I have only upgraded mine from budget to mid tier and the causal photos are already much better

After another couple of months, it now looks like this. This photo taken with the new camera I have just picked up - I have not quite got the hang of the focus and exposure yet - sorry! The "copper disease" is much less evident in the hand and the coin will never be perfect again, but I think better than it was.

OK - I have taken both routes! The phone holder is on it's way with Amazon, so I will report on that later. In the meantime I have picked up a refurbished Pentax K20, which is similar to my old Kr. I am still learning to drive it - I need to work on the focus and I haven't figured out how to control the exposure time yet. I am about to post some pics in the Free for All section, so you can see there...

Maybe try one of the companies online that offer refurbished with a 12 month warranty? Like: https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/category/used-cameras/dslr-cameras/pentax-dslr-cameras

Things like this can be collectible without being a "variety". If we start calling them varieties, it invites anyone with a hammer and chisel to start creating their own varieties.

Here are a couple of pennies from the Minster Auction Stu references elsewhere. The first I think is a class 2, though I am unsure which. It has particularly long side fleurs, wedge shaped contraction marks and reversed ‘N’s and I think that the ‘N’ in ‘DNS’ is double barred.

Hi, i’m wondering if this is a known variety or just an oddball. The 1 in the date is over another clearly separated 1 and the 4 appears to be both the plain and serif version at the same time. Any insight is much appreciated 🙏

Freeman estimated they were about 1 in 20 - i.e. 5% - based on his enormous survey of circulating coins in the 60s. Good luck with getting a high grade - I bought one from Colin Cooke in the 90s, he told me then that top grades of it are rare.

Yes, the groat was nice and very tempting at that price. But the marks were a little more apparent than in the photo and I had my sights elsewhere. The York shilling looked good and was a good buy for someone. If you ever need anything collected I usually go up if there is a significant coin offering. Jerry

Those little pieces are stunning, I’m so impressed! 🙌 Also, aboutfarthings was very active member on here…last time I contacted him, he’d been swamped with work. Around 25 years ago I used to make little refectory tables from dendro-dated Tudor oak. Great fun! And @Paddy really great point re drilling the die…not sure what Colin (from AF) said, I haven’t looked at @absence of uniformity’s link, yet?

Last year my wife and I, daughter and grandson drove Route 66 from Vegas to Chicago. While in Vegas I went to an antique store in the Art District.. On looking around among the sporting memorabilia and vintage coke bottles I found a British proof 1950 crown complete with its presentation box for $US30. I was surprised to find such an item. Just goes to show how the unexpected sometimes happens.

that one is very week on charles hair/laurel leaves

I do have a wash a coin disorder🤔 however I don't polish them, obvious circulated damaged ones get slotted in until like on this occasion they get rotated and then the lesser quality will finds its way onto ebay, its quite therapeutic and if I'm honest this should of taken place ages ago...I just didn't have the time back then....many thanks for the assistance I can mull these things over and on occasion ended up keeping duplicates....I sure I'm not the only one..👍

well you have to be pretty good to play the hammersmith its quite big

It is always worth ignoring die damage on a generally heavily circulated denomination in scarce condition. A few years ago I had an A/R in CAR farthing with weak central areas that I wanted a fair, but full price for on the grounds that I had only traced mine and the Colin Cooke example. Someone I know locally refused to pay so much in the hope one would turn up. Happy to report he's still waiting.........

Hello all ! I'm struggling to identify this rather badly struck short cross penny. The mint is obviously London, and I think the moneyer is IOHAN as the final two letters of his name appear to be "AN". The portrait looks like a class 5c (John) to me - but there are no IOHAN ON LUND coins of John, just of Henry II, and the king's hairstyle doesn't look like any of the Henry II types. Anyone got any clues ?

Hawarden is my preferred choice. Hawarden is 5 miles west of Chester and was in Royalist hands for all bar a few days throughout the war. Crucially, it was also on the road from Mostyn to Chester. Mostyn was where the first contingent of Irish troops under Sir Michael Earnley disembarked around 18-20th November 1643, recapturing Hawarden from Myddleton's parliamentary force on the way to Chester. There are two other HC options in the vicinity - Holt and Halton castles, but Hawarden alone has the necessary body of troops required to justify striking a lot of halfcrowns. 2500 Irish troops couldn't be paid from petty cash, though there is no documentary evidence I am aware of to say they were definitely paid prior to the replacement of Lord Capel at Chester on the 6th December 1643 with Lord Byron. The latter did report to Charles that he had ensured that each common soldier was given food and lodgings, a new suit and half a crown. It may also be pertinent that the locals in Chester were unhappy with the arrival of so many Irish troops, so there would have been a reason to keep them outside the city. The Coat of Arms of the Earldom of Cheshire was three gerbs, note the distinction from those of Chester which additionally has a sword as seen on the CHST below and declaration halfcrowns. If you look at a well struck up mark on the HC halfcrowns, they could equally be construed as three gerbs. See pic below. The punches for these appear to be the same as those used for some of the lion claws on the York reverses. The detail of the HC halfcrown is very much in the style of Thomas Rawlins, and there is some indication of a possible TR monogram signature on the York halfcrowns which are after all a 'Briot' style, though as Briot's understudy, this could equally apply to Rawlins. If you consider the rendering of the horse's mane on the type 6 & 7 halfcrowns at York, they are essentially the same as the HC horse's mane, so I would say it is odds on the same engraver. If you compare them with the York 1C halfcrown for examlpe, they are like chalk and cheese. As I think Rawlins was at York until the autumn of 1643, and the troops arrived from Ireland in the November, this planned in advance, there would be ample time for Rawlins to make the journey down to Chester. As I noted in my article, there appears to be the trace of a lion with three holes for the eyes and mouth and a leg under the O of CAROLVS. If this is just a coincidental flaw, it would be unfortunate, but I don't think it is. Additionally, if it was recut from a York die, there is no way it would be unused for over 2 years. What I am absolutely convinced about however, is that Hartlebury is a non-starter, being the Bishop's residence and essentially unfortifiable. And the 'siege' lasted one day.