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During the first week of May I spotted a 'Silver Hammered Penny King Edward I' for sale as a Buy-it-now' on Ebay, £38 total including Ebay insurance and 48hr Royal Mail Tracked delivery. As the coin was in fact an Edward III florin coinage penny of Canterbury, and quite scarce, I bought it and tracking showed that the vendor posted it on 10th May. Over the next 48hrs or so it tracked to the Birmingham MC sorting office - where it stayed. After a fortnight I spoke to the vendor who contacted RM and received an unhelpful reply and no coin. After 3 weeks Ebay gave me my money back within 24hrs of my claim as suggested by the vendor and I wrote the coin off mentally with much regret. It is noteworthy that with the refund Ebay actually state that if the purchase is subsequently found it can be kept and they do not have to be informed. Well, it was delivered out of the blue by postie on Thursday! Only 8 weeks in transit! The vendor and I have exchanged several cheerful emails and I get to keep the coin for nothing! As far as I can tell the coin is S1547, N1122 (VR) and DIG Obv 1 rev Ai. Jerry

Then a decent 1863 'open 3' , £30 at Midland Coin Fair.

Here are some close ups of the ships I took sometime ago. First is a 5 Incuse, although an older version than my current, then plain then 7 rellief.

Whilst the interest in collecting from change may fade away, the interest in rarities, especially nice ones, is likely to be subsumed into the general collector desire for quality rarities seen across all spheres. Otherwise, how do you explain the prices paid for hammered coins, none of which circulated in living memory. Their desirability stems from the history and all coins are part of that same history. Not all denominations have a large following, but one day their turn will come when relative rarities are fully appreciated. Take halfpennies. Much rarer than pennies in top grade because alongside farthings, they were the mainstay of the working class cash economy. That means a high grade example is always a good long term bet given they weren't normally set aside and collected per se. It is a common thread throughout history. Look at Roman sestertii as an example. These were the circulating base coinage of the Roman era, and again, not something the rich and famous would set aside. However, the Bolsena Hoard found in the late 19th century in northern Italy provides ample evidence that even 1700 years ago someone thought them collectable. As the hoard contained a large number of top grade sestertii spanning a few centuries, it beggars belief that they were collected from circulation. The hoard only makes sense as a collection. i.e. we are just the latest in a long history of people who collect from interest, rather than as an investment. As I wrote in my testimony to Cope part 2. We 'met' on ebay. He, as my regular nemesis, eventually asking if I was a copper collector. Silly and obvious really. When we had both bid over twice book on a lustrous 1718 halfpenny that came back in the sale as a 65RB, it was clear that we both appreciated the relative quality of the coin, and how infrequently they turn up. High grade modern pennies will also fall into that same collectable category once enough have been melted and are no longer readily available, and this might happen sooner than you think. In the past 20 years, I estimate that I have consigned somewhere near a ton of bronze to be melted of all denominations. Why? Because nobody wanted them, so you melt to free up cash. The odd rare piece will have gone through undetected, but the vast majority will have been worth scrap value. I am not alone in having done this. This will increase the relative abundance of the rarities over time. Every dog has its day, and as far as I can see, always will do so on a recurring basis.

I now have my own New model crown and a total beauty it is to I got it for less than three figures so am really happy its in about EF grade

One of the fundamental rules of collecting is that it is entirely down to individual taste, with no right or wrong. A person unable to see alternative views is too blinkered or has an unhealthy personal interest in the outcome. It is also a given that if someone writes down their research on paper, some people will collect said identified differences. One or more of the latter group will then see anomalies and try to rationalise them, and so the research continues. The logical conclusion therefore is that eventually, we will able to identify nearly all of the coin dies that were ever made. Not 100%, but pretty damn close. As a reference point - great. As a collecting aim - get a life if you want everything, and ask to carry any brownie points into the afterlife, because you will need all the time you have 10x over I can't explain why, but whenever I hear the passionate debates about what is right and wrong and the refusal to back down on a view, I am always reminded of the late Eric Heffer's speech in the Commons concerning the Labour left's hounding of Princess Michael of Kent regarding her father being in the SS during WW2. The basics were along the lines of: I think it important that someone from this side says this. I've never met the woman, have no desire to meet her and I am unlikely to ever do so, but in a democracy, nobody can be held accountable for the actions of their forefathers. So if those trying to make political capital from this would kindly sit down and shut up, we can get on with the business for which we were duly elected. He may have been left wing, but living in a democracy topped his political views By extrapolation, a tolerance of conflicting views ensures that life can continue peacefully, with the only likely damage in numismatics being data overload. I can live with that. The views will always be diverse, only the tolerance varies.

Fully functional teapots hollow spouts and removable lids.

Here's one of mine displaying the same die deterioration. A not uncommon feature on farthings of 1675.

...and as you can see, this part of the garden is a place of quiet contemplation.....

I like that there are variations with the 1799. I have 3 - 5 incuse gunports (which seems to be the most common), 7 relief gunports and plain hull. The best is probably this 5 incuse:

I have been giving my unwanted pennies to a charity shop (animal not human they are too greedy) and when I go in to see how they fared they are always sold out, apparently its youngsters going in to buy them, so maybe its an upward trend, hopefully

The problem with spurious Mint emissions is that a deliberate anomalous product commands a much higher price than a random blank picked up and thrown in the bucket for use. i.e. if you could prove it was a striking specifically tied to a certain mint action, such as trying out a regular mix on a different thickness blank, or a test for a new currency contract from a foreign country, you will do better than the unintended oddball. Wrong flans occur regularly, which is not surprising given the billions of blanks cut every year. Clearly even a hundred wrong'uns would be extremely rare, but in the context of mint operations would only amount to a rounding error if checked for weight. So to consider the above point, it is definitely not common, certainly excessively rare (in the context of a currency issue) and maybe even unique. The problem lies in documentation, because errors are by definition, not struck for the records.

I've just formed an end-of-season football harmony group, called Manhattan Transfer Window. You're welcome.

Thanks both, that is helpful. I will report back... P

Why don't you do that and find out as it is a cheap option? The cameras of the new phones are constantly getting better and you could very well be happy with the results.

Not absolutely everyone then! 😂 Still very happy with my acquisition 🖖

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/127945382130?_skw=1696&itmmeta=01KWV68AKFNDSWCKKGPY94SJ64&hash=item1dca2398f2:g:iPYAAeSw35RqQGXn&itmprp=enc%3AAQALAAAAwGfYFPkwiKCW4ZNSs2u11xDovThOToFz2ZFPxugPA9XSFNn8ZGWTRKC3MuiLJB2vvvikM48JUeNQ5533R99qzPdpkTJiede8k08e1bKo7QPHnPdYirkor3VFy0FOX2Qdv22cpy62ndLBOphkklDDLEyhg7Dorvm0zathn1pNWUCTsodDHQA6DNvLqugFfUYUWRm5YRDRZiZddbZrVpucvMHW9MCW66Ze6LEzfoQ8w6lGoPt4ne1QgIBCoh6HWU%2FLyw%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6aqoebmZw

On the plus side, a lot of the flan issues were ironed out during the decimal patterns by using various metal mixes and flan thicknesses. The presence of almost consistent flan lamination for certain varieties suggests an attempt to standardise minting conditions, more importantly on a series which didn't circulate. The engraving wasn't particularly divergent from the normal currency issues, but the minor fiddling with mixes and also presumably striking forces for the mixes will have helped immensely in arriving at the ideal.

Your picture is too blurred for comment but here are my own pictures from my website: Single exergue with waves almost touching the line and double exergue with waves clear of the line.

Just to add a bit more: the first few years of the changeover to bronze saw a helluva lot of repunching of date digits and legend letters. Bronze is a harder metal than copper, and the coins were thinner in size, so dies got worn relatively quickly. As well as that, the Mint is reported to have experienced a lot of problems caused by the change of metal, which the huge number of varieties (major, minor, and micro) in the first few years can attest to.

Just an oddball. Letters and digits on worn/filled dies were often repaired by re-punching, and not surprisingly these were often slightly misplaced. Of little extra interest unless the wrong punch has been used or the misplacement is extreme. As for the ‘4’ it may just be a die flaw. Jerry

Here is a pair of 1/12 queen Anne flintlock pistols I made. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JRH-9o-P6sg

Here is all the dies I made with the different collars.

An 1889 F127 narrow date,13.5 teeth £200 on Ebay.

An 1874H F69, £17.10 on Ebay.

Finally, after a month of challenge getting BT/Open Reach to repair my landline I at last have acceptable broadband and can post some recent acquisitions. First an example F10 new obverse 2*, £20 at Ebay auction.

Yes, most certainly a worn die. And a truly shocking price which would be way too high even for a good strike UNC example. Here's a much better example at a reasonable price: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/157378763239?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338946167&toolid=20006&loc=&customid=4581527531114051_710033490_o.9beeaa501cf11ef92efac014f4958c05&msclkid=9beeaa501cf11ef92efac014f4958c05

For me it would depend on whether the brightness indicated by the one on the left is a result of polishing to within an inch of it life. I can live with faults if the coin is sufficiently rare, but it isn't. Personally, I would bin (sell) both and put the proceeds towards something better, which would be easy given the number extant. The detail visible has been covered by the previous posts.

Definitely the one on the left. As well as @Coinery's comments, the detail on the reverse is far nicer.

Yes in my opinion 100% correct 👍🤦‍♂️ On my phone a caught the 🤦‍♂️picture 😃

Probably some action in the last minute. Or seconds...

I can quite see how a snappy descriptor, coupled with just the right level of scarcity, adds a touch of glamour to a particular coin and helps to make it more sought after - whether the V word is carelessly applied or not. Against the dot pennies, the poor old "1915 extra bar penny" doesn't stand much a chance, despite its origins and scarcity being broadly similar (IMO).

Maybe try one of the companies online that offer refurbished with a 12 month warranty? Like: https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/category/used-cameras/dslr-cameras/pentax-dslr-cameras

One mans meat is another mans poison . Here's one I have . There not very sort after but are pretty rare. Also in the same vein this one my interest you , Its a 1940 penny with two filled letters the only example I've ever seen.

Hi, i’m wondering if this is a known variety or just an oddball. The 1 in the date is over another clearly separated 1 and the 4 appears to be both the plain and serif version at the same time. Any insight is much appreciated 🙏

extreme /ɪkˈstriːm/ The word extreme generally describes something that is of the greatest possible degree, intensity, or the farthest from the norm. It can act as either an adjective or a noun, with specific nuances depending on how it is used. [1, 2] Pretty much ‘what it says on the tin’ to quote the old advert. Not easy set a reference point as to what any particular individual would consider extreme as there will be variation of opinion but with experience you will recognise degrees of misalignment of die repairs that are beyond the norm. I would for example consider the F10 ‘triple F’ Penny to be extreme, the side by side 1’s of 1861 and similar.

Rev

Freeman estimated they were about 1 in 20 - i.e. 5% - based on his enormous survey of circulating coins in the 60s. Good luck with getting a high grade - I bought one from Colin Cooke in the 90s, he told me then that top grades of it are rare.

I think every postal service in the world has been wanting at some point in time. We all have our horror stories to relate. 2 stand out in my case. My worst was following the purchase of the unique F689 (incorrectly slabbed as a P1983) and a P1156 (4 known) in the June 2006 Heritage sale. As you may anticipate the parcel went awol, with nothing heard of it until the following January/February when it reappeared back at Heritage. I had been refunded months before, so the first question they asked was did I still want it given it hadn't been signed for the first time round? A rather silly question given the parcel had just come from the Philippines! And no, I don't live on the outskirts of Manila. However, there was a positive outcome, because I pointed out the error in their shipping policy, which was to only have the parcel tracked in the destination country. I enquired how they could know where it was at any point, and how I could be sure the parcel had in fact been sent out at all and wasn't residing in the collection of a Heritage employee, even if I was trying to keep an open mind at all times. They got a bit miffed at the insinuation, but within a week or so had revised their international shipping policy such that the parcel was tracked at all times, whoever was the carrier. Hooray. Common sense prevailed and persists to this day, but only once they had actually read and absorbed the emails. The coin in question is seen below. It differs from the P1983 which has the oak leaves in the outer circle pointing in the opposite direction. I am not aware of any others, nor a P1983 in private hands, but if anyone knows of one, I'm all ears. A Peck miss given it was illustrated in the Nobleman sale (1922) lot 399. The second involved a parcel of Northumbrian stycas shipped to an address in Paris 10 or 12 years ago. Fully tracked, but nowhere to be seen - until it resurfaced in Tahiti. We know the Vikings got around a bit, but that would have required a major rewriting of Viking history books had the parcel been lost in the South Pacific.

I've had several rather less than commendable experiences with Royal Fail in the past few years. A couple of them stand out, the purchase of a Scottish square £1 note from 1909 that seemingly took a long detour for four months about four years ago - I worked with seller, filed a claim got refunded and the out of the blue the parcel showed up and I paid the seller for the note. Then about a year ago a parcel with some 19th century banking memorabilia dropped off the face of the earth in London - same thing, worked with seller got refunded and then like six months later it showed up. What a contrast - I frequently get several parcels, even large parcels from Ukraine all the time with complete tracking and despite the fact they are at war with Russia - parcels come through with efficiency. Ukrposhta is an enterprise that tries to deliver despite the circumstances - Royal Fail is a sad excuse. Now auction purchases from the London auction houses have to come either DHL or Fedex.

If you look at the bottom image you can see the faint line of the die crack. The coin was listed/sold as having a colon. I'm aware a variety is listed for the 1851 Farthing with a purported colon. Looks like the beginnings of a die crack rather than a colon to me.

Those little pieces are stunning, I’m so impressed! 🙌 Also, aboutfarthings was very active member on here…last time I contacted him, he’d been swamped with work. Around 25 years ago I used to make little refectory tables from dendro-dated Tudor oak. Great fun! And @Paddy really great point re drilling the die…not sure what Colin (from AF) said, I haven’t looked at @absence of uniformity’s link, yet?

Agreed! I used to spend time and effort trying to debunk this rubbish, particularly when I was dealing part time, but now I have given up. A fool and his money is soon parted.

I do have a wash a coin disorder🤔 however I don't polish them, obvious circulated damaged ones get slotted in until like on this occasion they get rotated and then the lesser quality will finds its way onto ebay, its quite therapeutic and if I'm honest this should of taken place ages ago...I just didn't have the time back then....many thanks for the assistance I can mull these things over and on occasion ended up keeping duplicates....I sure I'm not the only one..👍

Lobel or Noble? Trying to work out if it is a misprunt. Jim Noble in Oz used to send out lists too, hence the request for clarification. Good luck finding someone who keeps Coincraft's price lists. most aren't even read before the bin calls. I usually peruse them before binning, but only keep them if there is something worthy of recording. And amusing as it may seem, 1967 pennies at a fiver a pop, or whatever, is not a good reason.

Hello chaps, Please could I ask one of the experts a question or two about my Edward I pennies I won today on the Spink auction? First question... where it say in the provenance ii) Elmore-Jones, Glendining, 10 April 1984, lot 1582 - £65 does that mean that the second coin in the description is ex Elmore-Jones collection? Edward I (1272-1307), Pennies (6), Berwick, local dies issue, 1.35g (S.1415); also, Durham, class 9b1, 1.46g (cf. N.1037.1 {for type}; S.1421); additionally, Newcastle (4), class 9b1 (2) with star, 1.38g; and without, 1.31g (N.1037.1; S.1408); also, 9b1/10ab mule, 1.48g (N.1037/38; S.1408/9); lastly, class 10ab, 1.25g, reading hb (N.1039; S.1409), generally very fine, all toned (6). provenance ii) Elmore-Jones, Glendining, 10 April 1984, lot 1582 - £65 Secondly, please could I have a more detailed ID on coin number 5. It's listed as a Newcastle 10ab, but I'd like to know which one of the subgroups if possible (i.e. 10ab1-6). Many thanks, Descartes

Hi, I found this coin a couple of weeks back but have only just recently spotted that it reads Henrics and not Henricus. So far I haven’t been able to find any parallels and was hoping you guys might be able to help, thanks. Richard