Leaderboard

Benedetto Pistrucci, arguably the most famous coin engraver, was born in 1783 and died 1855. He was 56 years old at the time of the first photographic portrait. Only two years before his death he was photographed by Arthur R Hamilton. This is, to my knowledge, the only time he was photographed - and could reasonably be the first photograph of a British coin engraver! Most of the images you will find are later (1870-90) reproductions of the original photograph - identified by the black/gray card they are mounted on. I am fortunate enough to be the owner of the original photograph from 1853, signed by the photographer - to my knowledge it is the only one made from the negative and thus the true original piece!

Silver is always going to be better than gold for toning, due to the latter's relative resistance to chemical reaction. Toned gold is usually due to the copper mixed to produce the correct fineness. As you will be aware, left to its own devices and in a fairly clean environment, it will mostly turn black from silver oxide. Establish what the chemicals responsible for the colour scheme were and you probably have a good indicator of London's atmospheric constituents since Victorian time, though the toning stripe that looks like Britannia let one go, is probably from the fabrics found in a mint set. Though as always, a lot depends on the angle of the shot relative to light source. 15 or 20 years ago, I posted a picture taken one sunny day when I had a tray of Soho patterns on the desk, and the various colours reflected onto the ceiling enabled me to individually identify all the pieces using colour alone. There was a mixture of copper, bronzed, gilt and silver, but all were distinctively coloured. I think I lost the image a few years ago when photobucket went dysfunctional, so will have to wait for the sun to make another appearance unless someone can locate it on the forum. Having said all that, the one below is an oil painting in most lights and from most angles. Apologies to those who have already seen it.

You need to stop this sort of thing right now !

I can only suggest that when a brockage happens, the press is full of unwanted metal which in these cases shattered one of the flans with the remnant causing what is seen. The offending item did not bind to the full flan and fell off. It doesn't look concocted in either case, as the incuse legends are approximately correct for orientation, albeit displaced significantly in the first one.

Victoria not looking her best https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/800843380579?itmmeta=01M5Y8QYJPVNDVTD17WE529P6E&hash=itemba75fc3763:g:5WwAAeSwRD5q4FGZ&itmprp=enc%3AAQALAAAAwCHNgUiiE%2FjQhlDTaMiAde8bHv6%2B83BpYHviYhRXPNyyLSGEyET%2BkoJiqhq0LjWtlQjHs4TJbk850ubzIgdT2ShNbF%2FQ0OsLoD%2BnbWjOwSl9%2BTkwuU%2F1LhsMu6HXy6MydAOkMqkEbgr0ucw%2Fv6XZR2VKg3g96NaaAJwVPR7sH5Gcm7kjqTQ8wdr5Fy34Er8sWubzxQuapdd4tGIwJDK2a4S24elMx6ZTrIme3Hv1U64yE9YWQEfZwwKOPqT%2BP%2BiKPg%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR9jp38ivaA

surfaced today amongst a mixed bag of foreign and 1950's British coin, glad I did take some time otherwise it would be on its way to the charity shop, so for your consideration a 1892. Victorian and Ganga Singh 1 Rupee, It was minted by the princely state of Bikanir under the British Rule. .917 Silver, Weight 11.45 g

I only have one these days. 20 years ago I bought a whole collection of Indian silver including several dozen assorted Rupees, but sadly I sold them all. This is William IV, 1835:

Often when Una and the Lion's are mentioned, you first imagine gold! For me, it will always be this gorgeous silver pattern piece I had the chance to photograph. Stunning rainbow toning, never seen anything like it.

Just thought I'd share this image of a pattern five shilling piece in gold from 1853 which I handled in the RMM. Keep in mind, contemporary records show that there was discussion in parliament around this time that the half sovereign should be abolished for being too small a denomination to be made of gold, and of course the Royal Mint decided to make a smaller gold coin in response!

I may have jumped the gun, labelling this an imitation sterling! I’ve since discovered there’s actually a known class 9a coin with an ANL error and pellet on the breast, which is footnoted as extremely rare. I’d need to get a look at it in-hand…I’d be hoping that the S is top-tilted (it currently looks like it could be a mix of serifs)! We’ll see

Never a dull moment on here. Always some drama 😆

I understand how a full brockage happens, but not how a mis-shaped partial occurs. Can someone enlighten me please?

Vespasian Denarius. Reverse Jupiter standing. 69-79 AD Obverse: IMP CAESAR VESPASIANVS AVG Reverse: OVIS CVSTOS Is it genuine? I know next to nothing about Roman coins, but it looks very good compared to other examples at reputable dealers. Maybe a little too good? The weight looks about right.

Hi. Sharing a Henry II Tealby Penny from Canterbury. Can the moneyer's name be attributed from the little that is on-flan?

The mint signature is certainly CANTO at the top of the rev. picture because there is no sign of a termination. Where it would be is flat, and it doesn't matter whether it is a colon or initial cross, it ain't visible. RAVL is a distinct possibility given the width of the A. I'll bear that in mind. If the curl inside the C is an R tail, we are halfway there. The following A would be super-imposed on the A of the moneyer name, so possible slightly different profile given the possibility of made up letters from lines, crescents and wedges. The mint signature looks to cover about 150 degrees of the legend

With Rob’s proposition for a shorter name, I wonder whether it might be RAVL? There’s certainly a hint of the V My only other thought is, if the city was CANT, with the O being a G instead (the 2nd curve of the ‘O’ looks straighter, so a possibility I guess?), then GOLDHAVOC could also work? A die-match will be the only sure way of answering the question.

I think Alferg is only known for Bust A and this is Bust E with the hair curl, drapery joined at the left shoulder and a single row of pellets with pellet below. It doesn't look like E1 as there is no obvious triangle of pellets below the collar, so probably E2 or E3. All with the caveat that it is clearly double struck. Mint reading is CANTO, which should mean a shorter name. I'll try to dig out Allen to see if there is a die match when I clear the crap off the floor. The key will be the relative positions of the sceptre, + and hEN if there is a die match to be made, and a lot of reverse dies can be eliminated with the long mint signature.

Not 100 % sure but i think the last letter before the colons and ON is a G. So Alferg ? Perhaps. There is only two listed on the fitzwilliam corpus to compare with. Sadly one has no image and the other is just not that detailed due to wear.

Only halfpennies as it is a legacy collection. Basically I couldn't bring myself to do too much pruning as they were (mostly) too nice to throw out. And I couldn't see much point in getting rid of the unique dogs, such as the attached. An R24 in Aluminium - one that should have existed based on Peck's groupings, but he failed to locate an example. I suspect this was with a group of related aluminium die pairs at Spink when their building was bombed during WW2 and the corrosion is from water/electrolysis, as others within this group and struck in aluminium are similarly affected by water damage, albeit not as badly. See the Glens sale in the 60's or Selig's collection for other group examples. I picked it up on ebay in 2009 from the US - surprisingly nobody wanted it given its id but thankfully the condition eliminated the number chasers, so cheap as chips. . Happy days. Pennies, farthings and twopences are satisfied by an example of each type of style, rather than the nuclear option. Funds are too limited to go ballistic on all fronts.

I used to collect halfpennies and shillings as denominations, so the accumulation of Soho patterns was inevitable. I have however tempered my habits and now only 'need' an example of each Peck die pairing in whatever metal, as opposed to all die pairings in all metals.

So, I can confirm that all the S’s are serpentine and belonging to 9b with no star on breast. There is no perforation of the flan, and the rust on the reverse was not part of the coin, and has for the most part flicked off. North did not identify any ANL errors for Class 9, though Wither’s, as Coys pointed out, has recorded a London 9a piece, but also a 9b1 (which this coin is) for York (but not London). Therefore, to the best of my knowledge, this is an unrecorded obverse for London. Interestingly it arrived with a Spink ticket with 9b on it, but no mention of the legend error! Only a phone image for now!

Hi all, I’m hoping to get some opinions on an 1873 Queen Victoria shilling with die number 32 that I recently found metal detecting in Victoria, Australia. The coin was recovered about 4 inches deep in soil in bushland on the outskirts of Bendigo. It weighs approximately 5.57 g and has a normal-looking milled edge. I’ve attached photos of the obverse, reverse, die number and edge. What has made me particularly interested is that I have been unable to find die 32 listed among the known genuine 1873 shillings in the published and collector die-number lists I’ve checked. The sequence seems to include 30, 31, then 34, 35, with 32 absent. However, Gary Oddie’s BNS paper on Victorian shilling counterfeits specifically records 1873 die 32 among the known contemporary counterfeits. That raises an interesting question: was the counterfeit copied from a genuine Royal Mint die-32 shilling, or was 32 only present on a counterfeit die? The coin appears struck rather than obviously cast, and at approximately 5.57 g it is close to the normal weight for a genuine shilling. The edge milling also looks regular, with no obvious casting seam, although I appreciate none of this is enough to establish authenticity. I’d be very interested to know: Has anyone here seen or recorded a genuine 1873 die 32? Does anyone have a photograph or record of the 1873/32 contemporary counterfeit referred to by Gary Oddie? Do the die number, date position, wreath and other reverse details on this coin look consistent with normal Royal Mint production? If it proves genuine, could this potentially be the first recorded surviving example of 1873 reverse die 32? Any thoughts or references would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, David Victoria, Australia

Nothing super special about this piece, but I like how my camera caught it. Some good details for a circulation coin no doubt. Unfortunate small scratch on the beard, but barely noticeable admist the texture. This was my first good quality Edward VII that I bought, since then I've gotten a lovely 1904 Sovereign and a gorgeous 1902 matte proof shilling (alongside the long-set case, which I will complete in due course)

Yes, the Galata Guide has a 9a2 with the ANL error. I'm not 100% sure that is a pellet on the breast though, rather than just a slightly outsized pellet in the beading. The S on the reverse is badly worn, but the one on the obverse does look top-tilted to me. My opinion is that it's a 9a2 rather than an imitation sterling, but I have to admit that I'm not an expert on either series. Surprisingly (to me) though I've just counted 45 long cross in my collection. Only one sterling though.

It has a bit but its only a minuscule hole i think. It's looking promising for that rare one though Fingers crossed 🤞 Stu.

DrLarry has voluntarily left the forum, only his last comment above remains visible. Absence of Uniformity, it's not the first time you've rubbed someone up the wrong way. 👀 ___________________________________________________________ < line drawn under it.

You’ve finally got some scales 😃 Taking your weight, and using the criterion from the North article below, I’d say yours is an early issue (1280-1284?) Dublin farthing - Open Es & Cs and the clear wedge-tailed R of Rex. Whilst the reverse legend is weak, it does appear to me that there are both a D and an I starting in each quarter, making it Dublin (CIVI TAS DVBL INIE). I believe the only other mint for these farthings is Waterford (CIVI TAS VATE RFOR), so you can probably rule that out in this case…I’ll let you to decide what letters you see, it’ll be so much easier for you to confirm in-hand. https://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/Digital BNJ/pdfs/1997_BNJ_67_4.pdf

Definitely just post mint damage as Chris says. I think someone back in the late 1800s actually suspected it might have been a forgery (it's not, but many were at the time) and has cut or chopped the flan to test. The metal displacement can be seen along the entire length of the cut on the top side of it (so chopped at an angle upwards from SW to NE) and subsequent circulation wear has smoothed it out a bit including blending it into the beads, and separating off the bottom serif of the I to make a big blob. Not a mint fault, I'm afraid. You're actually not far wrong when you say hit with an axe! More likely a chisel.

It's not actually a denarius as you'd think but a drachm. Here's a similar one...https://en.numista.com/235578 The legends are the giveaway with it.

Just in case you were disappointed at missing this one, he has sold two and has another two remaining...

Lovely! I've been getting 1 rupees whenever I can. I have a Hyderabad one in my watch list too. I'll continue to look for one per year of the Imperial ones and then one from each Princely state that minted them.

Yes. I have full sympathy with Commodore Perry, who seemed to attach his tickets to coins like this .. less chance of them being misplaced I suppose.

In this example the letters, especially the W & A, and also the obverse legend is wrong for starters! Maybe a Class 5-style pellet on chest, not sure? I don’t have the coin in-hand, yet, but would probably be looking to sell it anyway. Can anyone share some insight into it? I know very little about the continental imitations themselves?

Welcome @David WSGG. I can't see anything wrong with your coin, so I would say is genuine. Die numbers are a bit of enigma. The lists that have been generated are not from the RM and merely represent those that have been identified by various collectors. As has been discussed on here before, the lists are not expected to be exhaustive, new ones are occasionally being found. There are not many ardent collectors or collators of die numbers, so a new discovery does not create as much excitement as a new variety of, say, a penny. I believe the list you have referred to is this: https://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk/dieno.html which does indeed miss out the 32 for 1873. Tony Clayton, who runs this page, would probably be the most interested in your discovery, but I can't seem to find an email address for him on his pages. Maybe someone else on here knows it? Ah - just found an email: tony@tonyclayton.org.uk

If the coin to the right is the shiny version you speak of, you can’t rule out polishing or cleaning of some description? Your photos highlights hairlines running in multiple directions, seems odd for a museum coin, which was presumably taken into its collection straight from the press?

Well, if you can find it on Amazon, I would highly recommend it! It’s looked at impartially, investigating both its positives AND downsides, with some unexpected discoveries/findings!

Your copper penny is in fact NOT COPPER its made of an alloy called bronze

This image shows the single coin I found out of 50 coins studied next to Citizen H coin. To further show they are the same I have circled the die characteristics seen on both coins; - Break in the linear circle just above the 1st N of Penny. - The aparent line in the exergue to the left of the 1. - The Kink in the linear circle to the left of the lighthouse and undersized teeth. - And the small die cracks shown on the teeth by Britannia's foot, between the two coins these defects are not exactly the same on both. And ofcourse the fingers on the trident.

Its hard to be sure from the images but is there a larger gap between the right hand prong of the trident and the linear circle on the 1/50 coin and Citizen H coin?

Hello and Many thanks... it is a shame that its rubbed, it was the triangle lead me to Ireland the solid long cross took me to thinking Edward I, I can make out CIVI but I'm still way off with the shape of the fonts but its a learning curve 👍

Hello, I am in the midst of writing a relatively large article on the 1887 Jubilee Coinage - estimated to be about 600pgs in total. In the process of such research, I spent about a week at the Royal Mint studying about ~200 tools relevant to the coinage and a similiar number of coins. Unfortunately, it seems that the Mint did not retain the original plaster models designed by Boehm. It often had seemed to be suggested that the relevant item(s) had been destroyed - a fact that I could not bear to hear! Hopefully, continuing the research into plaster models, with some vague hope of finding something, I did come across a 2010 Baldwin's sale, auction 68, which sure enough had a plaster model of the Jubilee Head! Well, I contacted Steve Hill of Sovereign Rarities, who worked at Baldwin's who confirmed that the piece sold to a bidder in Australia, and was since resold in auction 100 of Noble Numismatics (an Australian based auction house) after failing to sell in auction 99. I am now trying to contact the owner of such a piece, though I am having difficultly identifying who may own it. Should anyone have an idea of who may own it, it would be greatly appreciated for this to be shared with me. To my knowledge, it is likely an Australian collector, perhaps someone with a focus on the Jubilee coinage. Similiarly, if anyone has any high quality images of the copper electrotype described in BNJ 1984 by Graham Dyer, please would you be able to share it with me! Kind regards, -Ashley

@SohoMint did you try Jim Noble to see if he would contact the owner on your behalf?

The goddess of Waitrose?

I always like to see them, and have got better at Identifying them, but I have resisted collecting them. That is one huge rabbit hole to go down!

Yes 1656. Like you say drifted off the flan. They occasionally pop up. Stu.