Leaderboard

Henry v 1413-22 Quarter Noble Spink 1757Var. 1.71g Obverse: HENRIC REX ANGL FRANC within treasure of arches, stops of various shapes. Trefoil to left and mullet to right. Reverse: EXCVLTABTUR IN GLORIA (“He shall be exalted in glory”). Cross with lions in angles: lis in centre. Mullet to the right was to distinguish the kings new mint master Lewis John. Henry v’s first mint master. Appointed to the role on 14th April 1413. The trefoil was used as a periodic privy mark to identify a specific minting window die variation or administrative shift within the tower mint. The Annulets (small circles) placed around the arches served the exact same high-utility purpose as the ones next to the central shield or to top. They acted as a subtle internal code to identify the exact sub-series, die variation, and specific mint run. The “1757 Var” Designation: in British numismatics “1757” refers to the ID in the Spink standard catalogue of British coins. The “Var” (variety) means it features a distinct die error or sub type -specifically, a spelling variation, in the reverse Latin legend that reads EXCVLTABTVR instead of the standard EXALTABITVR, (“He shall be exalted in glory”).

I can only suggest that when a brockage happens, the press is full of unwanted metal which in these cases shattered one of the flans with the remnant causing what is seen. The offending item did not bind to the full flan and fell off. It doesn't look concocted in either case, as the incuse legends are approximately correct for orientation, albeit displaced significantly in the first one.

Hello, I am in the midst of writing a relatively large article on the 1887 Jubilee Coinage - estimated to be about 600pgs in total. In the process of such research, I spent about a week at the Royal Mint studying about ~200 tools relevant to the coinage and a similiar number of coins. Unfortunately, it seems that the Mint did not retain the original plaster models designed by Boehm. It often had seemed to be suggested that the relevant item(s) had been destroyed - a fact that I could not bear to hear! Hopefully, continuing the research into plaster models, with some vague hope of finding something, I did come across a 2010 Baldwin's sale, auction 68, which sure enough had a plaster model of the Jubilee Head! Well, I contacted Steve Hill of Sovereign Rarities, who worked at Baldwin's who confirmed that the piece sold to a bidder in Australia, and was since resold in auction 100 of Noble Numismatics (an Australian based auction house) after failing to sell in auction 99. I am now trying to contact the owner of such a piece, though I am having difficultly identifying who may own it. Should anyone have an idea of who may own it, it would be greatly appreciated for this to be shared with me. To my knowledge, it is likely an Australian collector, perhaps someone with a focus on the Jubilee coinage. Similiarly, if anyone has any high quality images of the copper electrotype described in BNJ 1984 by Graham Dyer, please would you be able to share it with me! Kind regards, -Ashley

He would have said something like "I remember the old mismatics under Obama - they were rubbish, fake."

Thank you very much Stuart, very kind. That coin is pretty rare to see on the market too, in any decent condition, yours are the best that I have seen. And certainly I will share the files here as well as with PAS, and anyone with a use for them. New examples have slowed but still occasionally come out of the woodwork. I am also creating sheets for early and late Medieval English, and Scottish medieval coins. I will be sharing those too. All a work in progress, perhaps another month or so .. With kind regards David

I said if i found out any more information I would post it up on the thread. I have found a little more out about the guy whose name , rank etc is edge engraved on the cartwheel penny. He was apparently born around 1784 in Inveravon, Banff, Scotland and died at the ripe old age of 93 from the Flu on November 22nd 1877 in Conval Street , Dufftown. Not a bad innings for a seasoned veteran. Stu.

I understand how a full brockage happens, but not how a mis-shaped partial occurs. Can someone enlighten me please?

Because they know no better and want to believe what they see. Unfortunately, knowledge requires some input from the prospective purchaser in the form of reading up the subject before buying. To me and you it is simple, but that's because we are interested in the subject matter. For the uninitiated just randomly looking for things that appeal visually, it's not a great step to hit the buy button. Sad but true. Ebay can't police the content sufficiently to make a difference, so once again, it relies on the moral compass of the seller. There should be a useful statistic in there somewhere for a number for Mr. Average's honesty coefficient, not to mention the gullibility coefficient of the typical buyer.

The class 3 and 9 coins available in much better grades generally.

You’ve finally got some scales 😃 Taking your weight, and using the criterion from the North article below, I’d say yours is an early issue (1280-1284?) Dublin farthing - Open Es & Cs and the clear wedge-tailed R of Rex. Whilst the reverse legend is weak, it does appear to me that there are both a D and an I starting in each quarter, making it Dublin (CIVI TAS DVBL INIE). I believe the only other mint for these farthings is Waterford (CIVI TAS VATE RFOR), so you can probably rule that out in this case…I’ll let you to decide what letters you see, it’ll be so much easier for you to confirm in-hand. https://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/Digital BNJ/pdfs/1997_BNJ_67_4.pdf

Definitely just post mint damage as Chris says. I think someone back in the late 1800s actually suspected it might have been a forgery (it's not, but many were at the time) and has cut or chopped the flan to test. The metal displacement can be seen along the entire length of the cut on the top side of it (so chopped at an angle upwards from SW to NE) and subsequent circulation wear has smoothed it out a bit including blending it into the beads, and separating off the bottom serif of the I to make a big blob. Not a mint fault, I'm afraid. You're actually not far wrong when you say hit with an axe! More likely a chisel.

It's not actually a denarius as you'd think but a drachm. Here's a similar one...https://en.numista.com/235578 The legends are the giveaway with it.

I am very well acquainted with him! In fact, I worked with Sovereign Rarities on his auction last year, and have since remained in close contact with him! He did almost purchase the plaster model in 2010, but alas decided against it!

I always like to see them, and have got better at Identifying them, but I have resisted collecting them. That is one huge rabbit hole to go down!

I think I can see the remains of "IMP TRAIAN ..." on the obverse, so Trajan? Reverse legend seems to have some Greek letters, so possibly Roman provincial.

https://ebay.io/m/Bvd8Q6 😬

Spot on. It could in theory be a class 1a2, 1a5, 1b1, 1b2 or 1c, but 1a2 is immediately ruled out because there is no square C or E and 1a5 because there is no stop after LVND. The others rely on observing a stop between S and R on the obverse (present on 1b1 and 1b2, but omitted on 1c). The round C and the R are clear enough, but is the gap between the two letters big enough for a stop? I'm not sure. In the end it doesn't really matter, because the coin is pretty much toast, but I enjoy getting as far as possible with these hopeless cases.

MS is MS, MS 60 is an un-circulated coin. Higher grades are more subjective with MS61 and higher attention is paid to strike, bag knocks, luster. toning etc. Wear and poor strike being very difficult to distinguish when it is slight. Also attention should be paid to the condition of the milling of the coin edge The whole point of TPG is consistency for valuation and comparing coins. The subject coin from the photo shows slight wear on the higher points and more correctly graded AU 55 - 58 or EF IMO. Personally I prefer the Sheldon as it gets rid of the abt. nearly + etc that are much more subjective. However it must be applied accurately to be of use. Having said that the book The Standard Guide to Grading British Coins is a good guide

My thoughts on the German forgery is that I reckon they had bigger fish to fry in 1945, than to bother themselves with bronze pennies

The visible lettering is too crude and close to the rim IMO. It looks more like an abused attempt at a cast copy to me. Any attempts at acid cleaning will thin the letters and reduce dimensions on all 3 axes if there is total immersion. The weight of a cast would obviously depend on the amount of metal poured into the mould, so I think not relevant in this instance.

I absolutely LOVE this one, and you only get to see the reverse, too…maybe they’re just being kind! Kind of Knight-like in shape, quite the piece of art https://ebay.io/m/Mck7Te

In the case of written text, I suspect it may have been underneath a piece of blotting paper or at least something as adsorbant as bog-roll. That was the only way I could rationalise my 1773 halfpenny on a spread flan with Basing House plus some indecipherables written in the hand of H Webb. The above could equally be due to someone making a poster. Anything written or pressed onto newsprint with excess ink is likely to pass through quite easily given the paper quality.

Interesting and educational read, here, on the counterfeiting of these shillings by Gary Oddie, just in case anyone’s interested! https://britnumsoc.blog/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/188-cft-commonwealth-oddie.pdf

Well spotted Mr G. Maybe my kids weren't so silly to suggest I sign up for the Biobank Alzheimers Accelerator Project after all. TBH, I'm not sure it needs to happen quicker anyway, but hey-ho. I had completely forgotten about that, but claim mitigating circumstances as I had just driven to the other end of the country through the night to look after the grandkids in Plymouth due to a family bereavement on the other side and not bothered going to bed afterwards. Hopefully get some sleep tonight when I can switch off.

Does anyone have any insight into the relative scarcity of the three Newcastle classes, measured against themselves? Over the last 3 or 4 years I’ve managed to pick up a class 3 and a class 9 in good grades, but have struggled to find the class 10 in a similarly collectable grade, with the attached coin, bearing the full Edward legend, the best I’ve found to-date.

The Standard Guide to Grading British Coins has been in print since 2009, initially as a colour hardback and then since 2014 as a black and white (greyscale) paperback. Some have criticised the black and white images over the years, and rightly so, but re-printing in colour was very costly and I always felt the price of the finished product was too high. But I always felt it deserved to be in colour again, so now, for the first time in about 13 years, a colour version of The Standard Guide to Grading British Coins is available. Price is £20.95 (£2 off the normal £22.95) and it can be pre-ordered here, with delivery later this month and free postage within the UK: https://coinpublications.com/product/the-standard-guide-to-grading-british-coins-colour/

I found my first 1946 ONE' penny today, in the rummage box at Dervaird Farm, Glenluce. It was obverse up on the bottom, looking like it might not have been looked at in years. One of those sublime moments. In view of your message above, I have to thank you for making it an even more desirable coin than it might otherwise have been😉

I Nearly scrapped this one for being a ex mount ...on the reverse some rather nice initials have been sympathetically added circa 1887

Hello and Many thanks... it is a shame that its rubbed, it was the triangle lead me to Ireland the solid long cross took me to thinking Edward I, I can make out CIVI but I'm still way off with the shape of the fonts but its a learning curve 👍

Awesome find, 👍😀

a bit of looking around armed with the Trajan name....Ive found it turns out to be a Trajan Denarius, 110 A.D. on the reverse Arabia Shelf waving a branch and carrying cinnamon sticks, Camel to the left. still looking around but 110 A.D. wow! 😲 many thanks all for the imput i'd never been able to found this out with out the help 🙏🏻👍

You want to talk to @1887jubilee who knows more about the 1887 JH coinage than anyone I've ever met.

Yes - 'fraid so! Wallowing in the luxury of retirement now.

Has anyone come across the half penny having six strings to the harp. I believe it should only have five, the strings are also very thick possibly a double strike but looking at the rest of the harp I’m not so sure.

Agreed. It's the only forum on here i take a real interest in. Posts are few and far between on here so happy to see people still posting stuff as it gets neglected abit.

As you say, this is a short-cross London penny of Henry II…minted by PIERES ON LVND

I remember being shown that coin. I told the person who sent the email pics that it was a mangled sixpence: "It looks like damage to me. Who knows what caused it and how much circulation it went through after the damage. Some damage can be hard to fathom. Maybe someone was trying to cover the SIX PENCE in order to pass it off as something else. It's possible I suppose that it did suffer some kind of defect when made and then someone made it worse, but either way, it's a bit of a mess. I really can't imagine anyone would be willing to pay more than the silver value for it. " Also here: https://britnumsoc.blog/2025/11/11/an-1834-william-iv-sixpence-with-a-laboratory-confirmed-multi-strike-error-from-the-steam-press-era-a-ikraam/https://britnumsoc.blog/2025/11/11/an-1834-william-iv-sixpence-with-a-laboratory-confirmed-multi-strike-error-from-the-steam-press-era-a-ikraam/ Erm, ok.

I see your point. The designs of modern coinage, including pre-decimal QE2 as here, are low relief to prolong the die life, almost 2-D with negligible depth, and thus it might not need much acid dunking to erode any shallow raised detail, if it were treated so. As the adjacent field would also be dissolving that may produce the expanded effect as shown, almost like a ghost image, but that's just thinking of a theory and probably doesn't make sense. The marks aren't acid marks either, they're loads of small cuts, perhaps kept in a tin with other coins for many years.

Buttttt, it does have a 20% off coupon! Please don't blame the postie if this turns up on your door mat this week, Stuart... 😬

Certainly looks like transfer of newsprint to me.

Nice one, Stu, thank you 🙏

There have been several of the same style posted here:

We meet on the first Tuesday of every month starting at 7:30 in the Nursey Inn on Green Lane in Heaton Norris. Below is the text outlined in our 2025 chairman's report which gives full details. South Manchester Numismatic Society (SMNS) Chairman’s Report to 2026 BANS Our AGM was held in June 2025 at our long-standing venue, the Nursery Inn, Heaton Norris, Stockport, SK6 4NL. 7 members attended and 2 apologies were accepted. In addition to the normal agenda, discussions moved on to topics which had been submitted by members as AOB. As a result of these conversations the following was agreed. It was decided that our subscription to Zoom should be cancelled, although the option to renew remains under consideration. We also reduced our annual subscription to £5. It was decided to change our meeting start time to 7.30 from 8.00 pm and to reduce the number of meetings to the level of most BANS societies at once a month. One of our members, Roy Williams, volunteered to submit pieces for publication in the Societies section of Coin News. He has been doing an excellent job in promoting SMNS. Since the AGM the average attendance has been eight across seven meetings which has been boosted by the recent pleasing acceptance of four new members. Two of us, Denis Martin and Paul Greenlees, have given presentations. The Exhibition Evening and the Colin Cooke trophy was won by David Holt for his display of Henry VIII posthumous coinage. At the latest meeting chairman Denis spoke an appreciation and presented Peter Crummett with a gift to celebrate his 90th birthday. It was decided to make Peter an Honorary Member following his over 65 years of support. Before the 2026 AGM in June we have a quiz and a talk from Peter to which we can look forward. In writing this Charman’s report I am pleased to announce that 2025/6 has been a most successful one. Dr Denis M Martin ( Chairman) There is a good range of knowledge in the club, with quite a few specialist fields. Early medieval, Tudor & Stuart, Greek and Roman and some Byzantine, Farthings, Shillings, Modern, Tokens misc. Foreign is probably the least represented unless covered by other fields. We are a tolerant lot that appreciate you can't know everything, so any additional knowledge is welcome. Online access to the meeting was used so that Garry Oddie and others could 'attend', but that obviously went tits up when he died. He joined most meetings and often gave a talk.

I think even a couple of the brass threepences came out very washed out, almost greyscale like, but everything was colour and the content is the same for this new colour p/b version.

I have no idea, but it occurs to me that perhaps this is the sort of information that Martin Allen at the EMC might have to hand? Mra25@cam.ac.uk

found in my change today 2025 by the way

What is the American MS64 - our GVF?

It screams fake at you. A mint mark in the shape of a pomegranate would be a good start. It is found after MARIA on the obverse, and if present on the reverse is after VERITAS.