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I now have my own New model crown and a total beauty it is to I got it for less than three figures so am really happy its in about EF grade

One of the fundamental rules of collecting is that it is entirely down to individual taste, with no right or wrong. A person unable to see alternative views is too blinkered or has an unhealthy personal interest in the outcome. It is also a given that if someone writes down their research on paper, some people will collect said identified differences. One or more of the latter group will then see anomalies and try to rationalise them, and so the research continues. The logical conclusion therefore is that eventually, we will able to identify nearly all of the coin dies that were ever made. Not 100%, but pretty damn close. As a reference point - great. As a collecting aim - get a life if you want everything, and ask to carry any brownie points into the afterlife, because you will need all the time you have 10x over I can't explain why, but whenever I hear the passionate debates about what is right and wrong and the refusal to back down on a view, I am always reminded of the late Eric Heffer's speech in the Commons concerning the Labour left's hounding of Princess Michael of Kent regarding her father being in the SS during WW2. The basics were along the lines of: I think it important that someone from this side says this. I've never met the woman, have no desire to meet her and I am unlikely to ever do so, but in a democracy, nobody can be held accountable for the actions of their forefathers. So if those trying to make political capital from this would kindly sit down and shut up, we can get on with the business for which we were duly elected. He may have been left wing, but living in a democracy topped his political views By extrapolation, a tolerance of conflicting views ensures that life can continue peacefully, with the only likely damage in numismatics being data overload. I can live with that. The views will always be diverse, only the tolerance varies.

I've just formed an end-of-season football harmony group, called Manhattan Transfer Window. You're welcome.

Thanks both, that is helpful. I will report back... P

Why don't you do that and find out as it is a cheap option? The cameras of the new phones are constantly getting better and you could very well be happy with the results.

Not absolutely everyone then! 😂 Still very happy with my acquisition 🖖

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/127945382130?_skw=1696&itmmeta=01KWV68AKFNDSWCKKGPY94SJ64&hash=item1dca2398f2:g:iPYAAeSw35RqQGXn&itmprp=enc%3AAQALAAAAwGfYFPkwiKCW4ZNSs2u11xDovThOToFz2ZFPxugPA9XSFNn8ZGWTRKC3MuiLJB2vvvikM48JUeNQ5533R99qzPdpkTJiede8k08e1bKo7QPHnPdYirkor3VFy0FOX2Qdv22cpy62ndLBOphkklDDLEyhg7Dorvm0zathn1pNWUCTsodDHQA6DNvLqugFfUYUWRm5YRDRZiZddbZrVpucvMHW9MCW66Ze6LEzfoQ8w6lGoPt4ne1QgIBCoh6HWU%2FLyw%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6aqoebmZw

On the plus side, a lot of the flan issues were ironed out during the decimal patterns by using various metal mixes and flan thicknesses. The presence of almost consistent flan lamination for certain varieties suggests an attempt to standardise minting conditions, more importantly on a series which didn't circulate. The engraving wasn't particularly divergent from the normal currency issues, but the minor fiddling with mixes and also presumably striking forces for the mixes will have helped immensely in arriving at the ideal.

Your picture is too blurred for comment but here are my own pictures from my website: Single exergue with waves almost touching the line and double exergue with waves clear of the line.

Just to add a bit more: the first few years of the changeover to bronze saw a helluva lot of repunching of date digits and legend letters. Bronze is a harder metal than copper, and the coins were thinner in size, so dies got worn relatively quickly. As well as that, the Mint is reported to have experienced a lot of problems caused by the change of metal, which the huge number of varieties (major, minor, and micro) in the first few years can attest to.

Just an oddball. Letters and digits on worn/filled dies were often repaired by re-punching, and not surprisingly these were often slightly misplaced. Of little extra interest unless the wrong punch has been used or the misplacement is extreme. As for the ‘4’ it may just be a die flaw. Jerry

The problem with spurious Mint emissions is that a deliberate anomalous product commands a much higher price than a random blank picked up and thrown in the bucket for use. i.e. if you could prove it was a striking specifically tied to a certain mint action, such as trying out a regular mix on a different thickness blank, or a test for a new currency contract from a foreign country, you will do better than the unintended oddball. Wrong flans occur regularly, which is not surprising given the billions of blanks cut every year. Clearly even a hundred wrong'uns would be extremely rare, but in the context of mint operations would only amount to a rounding error if checked for weight. So to consider the above point, it is definitely not common, certainly excessively rare (in the context of a currency issue) and maybe even unique. The problem lies in documentation, because errors are by definition, not struck for the records.

It may or may not attract enough interest to eventually be classed as a variety. Do some research, write an article, and who knows? Gouby listed the 1946 ONE' and claimed it was scarcer than the 1926ME. I used his note in my ultimately successful effort to get Spink to include it in the Standard Catalogue, which would have increased collector interest several times over.

Damn, that's lovely. I'm really much more into silver than bronze coins but that one is so lovely that all I can say is "thank you" for sharing it.

I can quite see how a snappy descriptor, coupled with just the right level of scarcity, adds a touch of glamour to a particular coin and helps to make it more sought after - whether the V word is carelessly applied or not. Against the dot pennies, the poor old "1915 extra bar penny" doesn't stand much a chance, despite its origins and scarcity being broadly similar (IMO).

Ooh, flagship phone 😀 I have only upgraded mine from budget to mid tier and the causal photos are already much better

After another couple of months, it now looks like this. This photo taken with the new camera I have just picked up - I have not quite got the hang of the focus and exposure yet - sorry! The "copper disease" is much less evident in the hand and the coin will never be perfect again, but I think better than it was.

OK - I have taken both routes! The phone holder is on it's way with Amazon, so I will report on that later. In the meantime I have picked up a refurbished Pentax K20, which is similar to my old Kr. I am still learning to drive it - I need to work on the focus and I haven't figured out how to control the exposure time yet. I am about to post some pics in the Free for All section, so you can see there...

What is, and is not, a variety is something of a 'grey area'. Decades ago, 1961 halfcrowns without the engraver initials EF on the reverse were considered to be a variety. However as soon as it became clear that it was the result of a filled die, it disappeared from the list of varieties overnight. Only very rarely are such things classed as varieties, the exceptions being things like the 1946 ONE' penny. They are accidents of the minting process rather than design changes and therefore only collected by a small group of people.

Were they the band that had a big hit with Carabao D'Amour?

Maybe try one of the companies online that offer refurbished with a 12 month warranty? Like: https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/category/used-cameras/dslr-cameras/pentax-dslr-cameras

Things like this can be collectible without being a "variety". If we start calling them varieties, it invites anyone with a hammer and chisel to start creating their own varieties.

ready for action then LOL

One mans meat is another mans poison . Here's one I have . There not very sort after but are pretty rare. Also in the same vein this one my interest you , Its a 1940 penny with two filled letters the only example I've ever seen.

Here are a couple of pennies from the Minster Auction Stu references elsewhere. The first I think is a class 2, though I am unsure which. It has particularly long side fleurs, wedge shaped contraction marks and reversed ‘N’s and I think that the ‘N’ in ‘DNS’ is double barred.

Hey, Jerry, apologies I’m deep in Germany right now. The first coin is definitely a 2b. The second is not a series I collect, yet, so not overly familiar without the literature to hand. Nice wins, though…I had all the Edward Penny lots in my watch list. There was that class 1 coin in a lot, along with a 3/4 fragment of a class 1 with an annulet on the breast…prices were all strong, though, so I just had the 4 Elizabeth coins I was after.

Hi, i’m wondering if this is a known variety or just an oddball. The 1 in the date is over another clearly separated 1 and the 4 appears to be both the plain and serif version at the same time. Any insight is much appreciated 🙏

extreme /ɪkˈstriːm/ The word extreme generally describes something that is of the greatest possible degree, intensity, or the farthest from the norm. It can act as either an adjective or a noun, with specific nuances depending on how it is used. [1, 2] Pretty much ‘what it says on the tin’ to quote the old advert. Not easy set a reference point as to what any particular individual would consider extreme as there will be variation of opinion but with experience you will recognise degrees of misalignment of die repairs that are beyond the norm. I would for example consider the F10 ‘triple F’ Penny to be extreme, the side by side 1’s of 1861 and similar.

Thanks guys, very informative 🙂

Rev

And here a penny of Berwick, class Blunt 4a, Withers 5a, pellet on breast and unusual crescent shaped hair. Slightly unusual portrait, any thoughts? Jerry

And the reverse;

I’m hoping these links works…sold for over £3000…the number of different Edward VI shillings was surprising @Michael-Roo, as were the Charles I coinage, as well as Elizabeth! Some royalist badges too @TomGoodheart https://www.easyliveauction.com/catalogue/lot/f8c9faa1e5744a62a93836a448951a53/0af8d24542e81eb9357e7ef448a6646f/auction-of-antique-silver-jewellery-paintings-count-lot-237/ https://www.easyliveauction.com/catalogue/lot/819865231486824515681d69c412c4c6/0af8d24542e81eb9357e7ef448a6646f/auction-of-antique-silver-jewellery-paintings-count-lot-236/

Thanks! Some of these I've seen before and some are new to me. Interesting lots. And somewhat silly prices but , .. happy for the vendor!

Oh, and this penny apparently has “the profile of a British lady “ on the reverse. Don’t you just love A.I. ! Jerry

That’s great, Jerry, many thanks for the offer, I’ll take you up on that next time! I can always reciprocate for The Cotswold, Harper Field (Stroud), and occasional Clevedon Salerooms, if you ever spot anything ☺️ Best, Stuart

Freeman estimated they were about 1 in 20 - i.e. 5% - based on his enormous survey of circulating coins in the 60s. Good luck with getting a high grade - I bought one from Colin Cooke in the 90s, he told me then that top grades of it are rare.

Yes, the groat was nice and very tempting at that price. But the marks were a little more apparent than in the photo and I had my sights elsewhere. The York shilling looked good and was a good buy for someone. If you ever need anything collected I usually go up if there is a significant coin offering. Jerry

During the first week of May I spotted a 'Silver Hammered Penny King Edward I' for sale as a Buy-it-now' on Ebay, £38 total including Ebay insurance and 48hr Royal Mail Tracked delivery. As the coin was in fact an Edward III florin coinage penny of Canterbury, and quite scarce, I bought it and tracking showed that the vendor posted it on 10th May. Over the next 48hrs or so it tracked to the Birmingham MC sorting office - where it stayed. After a fortnight I spoke to the vendor who contacted RM and received an unhelpful reply and no coin. After 3 weeks Ebay gave me my money back within 24hrs of my claim as suggested by the vendor and I wrote the coin off mentally with much regret. It is noteworthy that with the refund Ebay actually state that if the purchase is subsequently found it can be kept and they do not have to be informed. Well, it was delivered out of the blue by postie on Thursday! Only 8 weeks in transit! The vendor and I have exchanged several cheerful emails and I get to keep the coin for nothing! As far as I can tell the coin is S1547, N1122 (VR) and DIG Obv 1 rev Ai. Jerry

Nice piece Jerry. Glad it turned up in the end. My daughter's birthday card arrived 2 weeks late in April. My Nephews is now also 2 weeks late. Both posted 2 weeks in advance of occasion. I wouldn't mind but the distance it's travelling is a mere 38 miles inside the same county (Lancashire) They really are the pits. Stu.

I think every postal service in the world has been wanting at some point in time. We all have our horror stories to relate. 2 stand out in my case. My worst was following the purchase of the unique F689 (incorrectly slabbed as a P1983) and a P1156 (4 known) in the June 2006 Heritage sale. As you may anticipate the parcel went awol, with nothing heard of it until the following January/February when it reappeared back at Heritage. I had been refunded months before, so the first question they asked was did I still want it given it hadn't been signed for the first time round? A rather silly question given the parcel had just come from the Philippines! And no, I don't live on the outskirts of Manila. However, there was a positive outcome, because I pointed out the error in their shipping policy, which was to only have the parcel tracked in the destination country. I enquired how they could know where it was at any point, and how I could be sure the parcel had in fact been sent out at all and wasn't residing in the collection of a Heritage employee, even if I was trying to keep an open mind at all times. They got a bit miffed at the insinuation, but within a week or so had revised their international shipping policy such that the parcel was tracked at all times, whoever was the carrier. Hooray. Common sense prevailed and persists to this day, but only once they had actually read and absorbed the emails. The coin in question is seen below. It differs from the P1983 which has the oak leaves in the outer circle pointing in the opposite direction. I am not aware of any others, nor a P1983 in private hands, but if anyone knows of one, I'm all ears. A Peck miss given it was illustrated in the Nobleman sale (1922) lot 399. The second involved a parcel of Northumbrian stycas shipped to an address in Paris 10 or 12 years ago. Fully tracked, but nowhere to be seen - until it resurfaced in Tahiti. We know the Vikings got around a bit, but that would have required a major rewriting of Viking history books had the parcel been lost in the South Pacific.

An 1889 F127 narrow date,13.5 teeth £200 on Ebay.

An 1874H F69, £17.10 on Ebay.

Then a decent 1863 'open 3' , £30 at Midland Coin Fair.

Move on!

The user above was a member when they posted that, but they asked me to delete their account. I left the recent post and others elsewhere for posterity.