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I now have my own New model crown and a total beauty it is to I got it for less than three figures so am really happy its in about EF grade

One of the fundamental rules of collecting is that it is entirely down to individual taste, with no right or wrong. A person unable to see alternative views is too blinkered or has an unhealthy personal interest in the outcome. It is also a given that if someone writes down their research on paper, some people will collect said identified differences. One or more of the latter group will then see anomalies and try to rationalise them, and so the research continues. The logical conclusion therefore is that eventually, we will able to identify nearly all of the coin dies that were ever made. Not 100%, but pretty damn close. As a reference point - great. As a collecting aim - get a life if you want everything, and ask to carry any brownie points into the afterlife, because you will need all the time you have 10x over I can't explain why, but whenever I hear the passionate debates about what is right and wrong and the refusal to back down on a view, I am always reminded of the late Eric Heffer's speech in the Commons concerning the Labour left's hounding of Princess Michael of Kent regarding her father being in the SS during WW2. The basics were along the lines of: I think it important that someone from this side says this. I've never met the woman, have no desire to meet her and I am unlikely to ever do so, but in a democracy, nobody can be held accountable for the actions of their forefathers. So if those trying to make political capital from this would kindly sit down and shut up, we can get on with the business for which we were duly elected. He may have been left wing, but living in a democracy topped his political views By extrapolation, a tolerance of conflicting views ensures that life can continue peacefully, with the only likely damage in numismatics being data overload. I can live with that. The views will always be diverse, only the tolerance varies.

Whilst the interest in collecting from change may fade away, the interest in rarities, especially nice ones, is likely to be subsumed into the general collector desire for quality rarities seen across all spheres. Otherwise, how do you explain the prices paid for hammered coins, none of which circulated in living memory. Their desirability stems from the history and all coins are part of that same history. Not all denominations have a large following, but one day their turn will come when relative rarities are fully appreciated. Take halfpennies. Much rarer than pennies in top grade because alongside farthings, they were the mainstay of the working class cash economy. That means a high grade example is always a good long term bet given they weren't normally set aside and collected per se. It is a common thread throughout history. Look at Roman sestertii as an example. These were the circulating base coinage of the Roman era, and again, not something the rich and famous would set aside. However, the Bolsena Hoard found in the late 19th century in northern Italy provides ample evidence that even 1700 years ago someone thought them collectable. As the hoard contained a large number of top grade sestertii spanning a few centuries, it beggars belief that they were collected from circulation. The hoard only makes sense as a collection. i.e. we are just the latest in a long history of people who collect from interest, rather than as an investment. As I wrote in my testimony to Cope part 2. We 'met' on ebay. He, as my regular nemesis, eventually asking if I was a copper collector. Silly and obvious really. When we had both bid over twice book on a lustrous 1718 halfpenny that came back in the sale as a 65RB, it was clear that we both appreciated the relative quality of the coin, and how infrequently they turn up. High grade modern pennies will also fall into that same collectable category once enough have been melted and are no longer readily available, and this might happen sooner than you think. In the past 20 years, I estimate that I have consigned somewhere near a ton of bronze to be melted of all denominations. Why? Because nobody wanted them, so you melt to free up cash. The odd rare piece will have gone through undetected, but the vast majority will have been worth scrap value. I am not alone in having done this. This will increase the relative abundance of the rarities over time. Every dog has its day, and as far as I can see, always will do so on a recurring basis.

The problem with spurious Mint emissions is that a deliberate anomalous product commands a much higher price than a random blank picked up and thrown in the bucket for use. i.e. if you could prove it was a striking specifically tied to a certain mint action, such as trying out a regular mix on a different thickness blank, or a test for a new currency contract from a foreign country, you will do better than the unintended oddball. Wrong flans occur regularly, which is not surprising given the billions of blanks cut every year. Clearly even a hundred wrong'uns would be extremely rare, but in the context of mint operations would only amount to a rounding error if checked for weight. So to consider the above point, it is definitely not common, certainly excessively rare (in the context of a currency issue) and maybe even unique. The problem lies in documentation, because errors are by definition, not struck for the records.

I've just formed an end-of-season football harmony group, called Manhattan Transfer Window. You're welcome.

Thanks both, that is helpful. I will report back... P

Why don't you do that and find out as it is a cheap option? The cameras of the new phones are constantly getting better and you could very well be happy with the results.

Not absolutely everyone then! 😂 Still very happy with my acquisition 🖖

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/127945382130?_skw=1696&itmmeta=01KWV68AKFNDSWCKKGPY94SJ64&hash=item1dca2398f2:g:iPYAAeSw35RqQGXn&itmprp=enc%3AAQALAAAAwGfYFPkwiKCW4ZNSs2u11xDovThOToFz2ZFPxugPA9XSFNn8ZGWTRKC3MuiLJB2vvvikM48JUeNQ5533R99qzPdpkTJiede8k08e1bKo7QPHnPdYirkor3VFy0FOX2Qdv22cpy62ndLBOphkklDDLEyhg7Dorvm0zathn1pNWUCTsodDHQA6DNvLqugFfUYUWRm5YRDRZiZddbZrVpucvMHW9MCW66Ze6LEzfoQ8w6lGoPt4ne1QgIBCoh6HWU%2FLyw%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6aqoebmZw

Your picture is too blurred for comment but here are my own pictures from my website: Single exergue with waves almost touching the line and double exergue with waves clear of the line.

No reserve......I figure these things will realise their current value. As I said in my OP, I may be wrong but I get the impression demand is not what it was 10 -20 years ago. Am I wrong?

What size is it?

It may or may not attract enough interest to eventually be classed as a variety. Do some research, write an article, and who knows? Gouby listed the 1946 ONE' and claimed it was scarcer than the 1926ME. I used his note in my ultimately successful effort to get Spink to include it in the Standard Catalogue, which would have increased collector interest several times over.

Damn, that's lovely. I'm really much more into silver than bronze coins but that one is so lovely that all I can say is "thank you" for sharing it.

I can quite see how a snappy descriptor, coupled with just the right level of scarcity, adds a touch of glamour to a particular coin and helps to make it more sought after - whether the V word is carelessly applied or not. Against the dot pennies, the poor old "1915 extra bar penny" doesn't stand much a chance, despite its origins and scarcity being broadly similar (IMO).

Ooh, flagship phone 😀 I have only upgraded mine from budget to mid tier and the causal photos are already much better

After another couple of months, it now looks like this. This photo taken with the new camera I have just picked up - I have not quite got the hang of the focus and exposure yet - sorry! The "copper disease" is much less evident in the hand and the coin will never be perfect again, but I think better than it was.

OK - I have taken both routes! The phone holder is on it's way with Amazon, so I will report on that later. In the meantime I have picked up a refurbished Pentax K20, which is similar to my old Kr. I am still learning to drive it - I need to work on the focus and I haven't figured out how to control the exposure time yet. I am about to post some pics in the Free for All section, so you can see there...

What is, and is not, a variety is something of a 'grey area'. Decades ago, 1961 halfcrowns without the engraver initials EF on the reverse were considered to be a variety. However as soon as it became clear that it was the result of a filled die, it disappeared from the list of varieties overnight. Only very rarely are such things classed as varieties, the exceptions being things like the 1946 ONE' penny. They are accidents of the minting process rather than design changes and therefore only collected by a small group of people.

Were they the band that had a big hit with Carabao D'Amour?

Maybe try one of the companies online that offer refurbished with a 12 month warranty? Like: https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/category/used-cameras/dslr-cameras/pentax-dslr-cameras

Things like this can be collectible without being a "variety". If we start calling them varieties, it invites anyone with a hammer and chisel to start creating their own varieties.

ready for action then LOL

One mans meat is another mans poison . Here's one I have . There not very sort after but are pretty rare. Also in the same vein this one my interest you , Its a 1940 penny with two filled letters the only example I've ever seen.

Here are a couple of pennies from the Minster Auction Stu references elsewhere. The first I think is a class 2, though I am unsure which. It has particularly long side fleurs, wedge shaped contraction marks and reversed ‘N’s and I think that the ‘N’ in ‘DNS’ is double barred.

Hey, Jerry, apologies I’m deep in Germany right now. The first coin is definitely a 2b. The second is not a series I collect, yet, so not overly familiar without the literature to hand. Nice wins, though…I had all the Edward Penny lots in my watch list. There was that class 1 coin in a lot, along with a 3/4 fragment of a class 1 with an annulet on the breast…prices were all strong, though, so I just had the 4 Elizabeth coins I was after.

extreme /ɪkˈstriːm/ The word extreme generally describes something that is of the greatest possible degree, intensity, or the farthest from the norm. It can act as either an adjective or a noun, with specific nuances depending on how it is used. [1, 2] Pretty much ‘what it says on the tin’ to quote the old advert. Not easy set a reference point as to what any particular individual would consider extreme as there will be variation of opinion but with experience you will recognise degrees of misalignment of die repairs that are beyond the norm. I would for example consider the F10 ‘triple F’ Penny to be extreme, the side by side 1’s of 1861 and similar.

Thanks guys, very informative 🙂

On the plus side, a lot of the flan issues were ironed out during the decimal patterns by using various metal mixes and flan thicknesses. The presence of almost consistent flan lamination for certain varieties suggests an attempt to standardise minting conditions, more importantly on a series which didn't circulate. The engraving wasn't particularly divergent from the normal currency issues, but the minor fiddling with mixes and also presumably striking forces for the mixes will have helped immensely in arriving at the ideal.

Rev

And here a penny of Berwick, class Blunt 4a, Withers 5a, pellet on breast and unusual crescent shaped hair. Slightly unusual portrait, any thoughts? Jerry

And the reverse;

Oh, and this penny apparently has “the profile of a British lady “ on the reverse. Don’t you just love A.I. ! Jerry

Freeman estimated they were about 1 in 20 - i.e. 5% - based on his enormous survey of circulating coins in the 60s. Good luck with getting a high grade - I bought one from Colin Cooke in the 90s, he told me then that top grades of it are rare.

Move on!

The user above was a member when they posted that, but they asked me to delete their account. I left the recent post and others elsewhere for posterity.