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I have to at least make some cursory effort to inform myself as to why two members are not getting along. Get a bit of background, you know. Although I think I probably wish I hadn't. The BLM thing was years ago and this is a coin forum. Peckris' recent post about Jenrick was silly, but he's still not going on and on about the same thing for years. I'm going to close this topic for now. I may open it again at some point. Please don't start another one or carry on somewhere else where you left off. I think we know where you're coming from by now and you and Peckris are never going to be buddies. That's it, back to coins.

My idea a few years ago was to do away with the 1p and 2p because they are comparatively expensive to make and fiddly to deal with, and have the 5p as the smallest denomination in regular use, as is already the case in some countries (I think NZ and Australia have 5c as their smallest in-use coin). But with a just-for-fun and British quirky twist - have it renamed as a 'Shilling' (dually featuring both '5' and 'Shilling' in the design). Items could then be priced in Pounds and Shillings if so desired, but it would still be decimal and technically nothing would change, there would still be 100 pennies in a pound and the 5p would still be 1/20th of a pound just like it and the shilling always were. Merchants could price exactly the same as now, e.g. £3.40 or they could be brave and price as £3/8 for the novelty value. Most would no doubt stick to the way it is now, but it would be fun to have pounds and shillings, and perhaps shillings could catch on at least colloquially. The 10p could be called a florin and the 20p a double florin. The 50p would be 10 shillings, obviously. I think it would be fun thing, but it's no doubt too late to re-establish any kind of shilling now, even in name only, for 2 reasons - 1. People who fondly remember using actual shillings are becoming scarcer so there really isn't much nostalgic connection with shillings, florins etc among the general public as a whole and the concept of having £1 made up of 20 of something would be confusing for many. And.. 2. Physical cash in everyday use for payment of most things is being overtaken by electronic alternatives, so use of actual cash is dwindling and is very likely to continue on a downward trend. Pie in the sky. Maybe it could have worked 20 or 30 years ago!

FFS, alright STOP. How do you have the energy to hold a grudge for 5+ years and still get so worked up now? I can't even be bothered to read all of the 'Proof there is no god' thread, because even with my 'neutral' cap on, trying to be objective, you really do seem to moan on and on and on. And now you're doing it in this topic, years later! Be cool man, at least for your blood pressure and arteries, it's just not worth it. People don't want to see it. I don't want to see it. Tit for tat nonsense. I don't think I've ever paused/suspended or had to take any disciplinary action on anyone in the forum in 20+ years (some that did have bees in their bonnet tended to leave in a huff of their own accord). Please, either take this elsewhere.... difficult I know, if Peckris has blocked you or whatever. Or find some other place to argue with people. Life's way too short.

"The Harold II silver penny hoard only includes pennies minted by the king" You would have thought a king would have better things to do

His constituency is Newark apparently. I wonder if Kemi Badenoch has reflected on possible anagrams that could be made...?

The one consideration you have missed is the possibility that the overdate (or letter) was not punched deep enough into the die to pass the lowest point of the previous digit. Using the same reasoning, consider the 1817 GEOE/R shilling. I refuse to believe the engraver thought 'Here'a correct legend, I'll just create an error by 'correcting' the R with an E so that some nerds 200 years from now find something to get excited about'. Clearly the E would have been put in first, but the correction wasn't sunk deep enough. Easy to do if you are looking at the lowest point in the field as a reference point rather than the bottom of a very small deep pit.

Most of the stuff I buy seems to look like that

Someone has took a genuine 1820 coin and altered it to 1817 then cast it i assume. Anyway....I found the paper's that Gary Oddie wrote if anyone is interested. They are all on the link here...https://britnumsoc.blog/2021/10/09/counterfeit-shillings-of-george-iii-1816-1820-iv-a-contemporary-mould-revisited-gary-oddie/

J G Scott wrote a book in 1975 about c/mks on Copper and bronze coins which I retained when I acquired DRJ's collection. I will see if I can find it tomorrow night and post what is useful.

Is it possible there's a hint of a remaining crossbar, as highlighted below?

Deary me, we seem to have a difference of political opinions. Which is fine of course. But please don't insult Peckris by suggesting he is not familiar with the word "honestly". Don't need negative vibes today, or ever for that matter. I don't have any spare brain cells to have to worry about potential conflicts on the forum.

I found this interesting and some lovely hammered coins pictured: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2yerrqel7o

Here is one that is probably a transportation token, but because the message is less clear, one cannot be certain:

Quite a few Counter-stamps are commercial. Many copper pennies were stamped with "Lloyds" and used as tokens for their paper. The Chinese used Chop marks to confirm authenticity or claim ownership. Some were also governmental - indicating a re-valuation or the use in subsidiary or revolutionary organisations. Many early Caribbean coins are counter stamped versions of other country's money. Engraving tends to be more personal, individual and so difficult to track down. When I first started collecting again in the early 2000s I picked up a cartwheel penny at an antiques shop, which, in the terms of the vendor, had been "Vandalised as someone's written all over the back" As a result it was cheap. The wording was something like "When this you see, think of me, J Bond 1827" - it was a transportation token created by or for someone about to be shipped to the colonies! I put it on Ebay, and it sold for a tidy sum, going to Australia. Sadly I no longer have a picture. Here is a Brazilian 20 Reis counter stamped by the government to revalue as 40 Reis.

Unless his full name was Harold Trumpsson?

Sad news about Gary. I never met him but heard lots of good things about him. He was born in the town i reside in. I just dug my shilling out as this post had sparked my interest. Never even noticed it before but it's got a clear overdate. 1817 over 1820. That's something i have never seen in a counterfeit coin before.

Yes, Gary Oddie passed away quite recently. @seuk is Peter Poulsen. Most of his website text has been archived, but unfortunately none of the images: web.archive.org/web/20150825194438/http://www.steppeulvene.com/index.george_iii.html I hope he's alright.

Here is a lovely example of 5i that i found in the hydburn and ribble valley area whilst metal detecting

Yes i saw the canal one. Bad the way that barge went down like the Titanic. You been watching the ROC post in Tunstall on the East Yorkshire coast as it slowly eroded out the cliff's and fell on to the beach ?

I had these coin folders for most of my collection that I didn't trust the plastic in. So I bought new binder and some better sheets like I've been using for my shilling run and transferred everything over today. While moving the Elizabeth II sets - both l/s/d & decimal - I noticed something that struck me as interesting. Back when the UK changed to decimal, the new 5p & 10p were made the size and weight of the shilling and florin respectively. That ended in 1990 and then over the next couple of years the 5p, 10p, and 50p were made physically smaller. Also in there though the £1 coins and the £2 coins were introduced. The bi-metal £1 is essentially the same diameter and just a bit heavier than a shilling was. The bi-metal £2 coin is almost exactly the size and weight of the florin. I looked at the value of the 1966 shilling at the Bank of England's inflation calculator and even more humorously, the shillings buying power then was £0.82 in December of 2025 - a florin equaling £1.74 now. Not too far off from £1 & £2 pound coins! Perhaps the UK should introduce a circulating £5 coin of 32.5mm and 14.14 grams... ? 🤣

Hey thank you very much Stu, perfect match, really appreciate the info bud 👍

This one perhaps or similar. I can read Parthico on the worn side. https://it.numista.com/253249

Oh dear, time to leave this Forum I guess.

Well, here you are, not too hard to find, read the whole exchange in "Proof there is no god", last comment June 29th 2020 in "Nothing whatsoever to do with coins". Edit by admin: (Pasted text removed. If anyone really wants to read the whole thread referred to, it's here): Lovely, anyway, more lies in your last message. 1. Give me an example of a "vitriolic" reply I've given you, you say you've received "nothing but vitriol". Do you know what the word vitriol means? I doubt it, but for a good example see your inserts above. A truly foaming at the mouth episode. and this one makes me laugh. Feel free to read the whole thread again, and get back to me with your totally predictable non-change of mind, or perhaps abuse. You must think I was born yesterday: 2. If oldcopper can provide a link to the conversation he mentioned above, then I'm quite prepared to read it and to apologise if it's appropriate, i.e. if what he says is true.

I'm happy to go with that. I do realise that politically I'm in the minority here, but most of you guys don't have a problem with it.

Come on guys, I go to this thread for a chuckle, not to read personal remarks.

Very similar to a coin of mine

The problem with those H buns is that being so close to the edge, the H is much more prone to wear than the date digits. I've lost count of "wrong" 1882 pennies offered for sale as "no H " pennies!

Yes it's not great. It's pulled most of the information off the convict records site i linked above. It might be able to pull up some stuff off one of the Genealogy website's about him though 🤞

You should be able to find out more about him using Gemini Ai. I pulled this up quickly. You could probably ask further questions and get some more details from it. https://gemini.google.com/share/1a43cd2e2c35

I am not a member. I found the site by chance using "George Pettet Transported to the Colonies" as a google search. It was the top link.

Wow! Well found! If you are a member on that site, feel free to add a copy of my picture if you think it would be appreciated.

https://convictrecords.com.au/convicts/pettet/george/97932 Could be him. According to the details added later on by a lady called Diane Jones he was executed for a murder carried out in Oatlands , Australia a few years after he arrived in Australia.

Apoligies for the misunderstanding. I am not too clued up on those type of marks. They are chop marks i think. There may be a book somewhere with them in. I know there is books on the counterstamped trade tokens of the 18th century & 19th century covering the likes of the Bradford & Keighley workhouse tokens to name a few. Galata do a good one.

I wasn't aware of any previous disagreements and I certainly may have neglected my role as forum admin in the past, I accept that. Having a little fun with current affairs and public figures, including politicians, is fine and healthy banter as far as I'm concerned (e.g. blakeyboy's meme above). Let's keep politics off of here though, both of you. It always becomes a headache (from my point of view)! I'm sure you two gents can agree to disagree, you've both been here for years so you must have managed to somehow. Thank-you both for your input.

I wasn't aware that moving something like that would then default everything under it to 'unread'! If you go to the 'branch' in question, e.g Wanted, there should be an option at the top to 'Mark Forum as Read'. This is what it looks like for me but it may look different for other browser/OSes.

Ah... its the counterstamps that I would like to pursue, I have some Reales that have various Chinese counterstamps that are believed to be merchant stamps... the other 2 attached are British coins counterstamped to be used in other country's so looking to find out where?

I saw most of his Davos speech - honestly, it was just a raving ramble complaining about everyone except his own team, yet claiming ridiculous false achievements in his first year.

5 Cents Buffalo & 1884, 1923 Dollars 👍

Certainly.

Personally I'd lay the coin on the (transparent) ruler on the coin with the zero point at the coin's widest point. I'd also use the mm scale rather than inches.

Starting off, I owe you all a big Thank You...I came here 1 year ago and was recovering from a stroke... my reading and speaking has got better and my chaos has improved as well.... to a degree. Ive attached some photos of what's been paged and has put some order in place.... if the worse happen I'd hate to think what would have happen to these coins... The hammered coins (pennies) still cause problems for me and still there others to follow.... Sorry! 😟 once again a huge Thank You one and all for the support and clarification when assisting my queries, I wouldn't have been able to have got this far without it. Kind Regards "H"

A lovely coin Peckris 2. Mega apologies for the delay in response.

Even so, it is worth now several times what you have paid and so it was a good investment 🙂

Thanks, much appreciated!

Big piece of British bronze from the Birmingham Workhouse - quite possibly the largest numismatic object struck for actual circulation by Matthew Boulton's steam powered machinery - this weighs almost 2.5 ounces.

London, Nicole?

Makes my Jim Bowen autograph pale into insignificance.