Chris Perkins

I don't know which is the worst thing about The Phoenix - the OTT prices, the fact that it's jam-packed with things like Samoan Princess Di memorial crowns or its complete disregard for the basics of English grammar and punctuation. I got the latest edition yesterday and it was in the bin before bedtime. (On balance, I think it's its illiterate English which really makes me weep). I don't like the way that the Coincraft literature really seems to sound so American. Fair enough, so American English has crept in everywhere, and I'll admit that some of it isn't really bad, and I don't cringe as much as I used to at most things. I dare say when relaxed I may even slip into a little Ameriglish (do you like that!?) sometimes myself. But I really cannot spend too much time reading a coin craft text without clicking on the right hand cross or casting the thing aside. Did you know, the man himself (ever such a nice chap, of course) Richard Lobel, is in fact an American. I know that, because I've rubbed shoulders with him literally, and heard him speak at London Coin fairs.

Correct, the cover is dated and quite nasty and has had that blue/black/white look for sometime now. The reason it is only produced in 2 ink colours was a technical/time consuming reason. Apparently with the equipment they have it takes a very long time to put different colour inks on the page and the results were not always great. The reason blue/black are the current colours is because the book has always been blue/black, and to aid identifaction. So with the identification thing in mind I think I will modernise the cover design to the maximum given the technology available at the German printers. If it can be full technicolour (and not cost much more) then I'd be inclined to do something full colour with perhaps a blue and black feel. I think tranditionally the cover has always illustrated the new coins for that year, which is sensible I suppose. I don't know what actual coins will be on the next cover at this stage, but I would really like to improve the cover on the book. I do have Adobe Photoshop, but it's in German, so could prove a little difficult!

That's the one! A Bezel, like the Bezel on some watches. Thanks kuhli

I've sorted yours Master JMD

It's something only I can do. Let me know if you would like to change yours, and to what.

For some reason adding the secret area and giving you lot permission has ruined the formatting of your signatures. I don't know why, but I think I'll have to ask you to play around with the HTML to try to put them right.

Some of you may notice I have created the Rotographic research forum. This forum is for the discussion of the publiscations and is accessible by the following members: Chris Perkins (my new name) Emperor Oli William Sylvester Master JMD Penny Master Geoff T Mint Mark Custard1966 TomGoodheart bob-e kuhli Edward Other members cannot view the area at all. If you would like to help with price and other general research for numismatic publications on a voluntary basis please ask me to be given permission to access that area.

Yes, well done Oli!! But it's the name for the mounting type that I was thinking of.

No, that certainly isn't fine. And the uneven wear arround the edge probably indicates it was used as jewellery and probably held loosly in an enclosed ring (there is a name for what I'm thinking of). You paid the market value, but it certainly wasn't a snip.

Woah there William! Keep your socks on, I've only just paid the deposit for the Rotographic company and it might be 6 weeks before the money comes through and then I will probably go over to meet the current owners in person. Only then can I even think about timescales. Right now, all we can do is brainstorm for ideas. And I'm already very pleased with the points of view and suggestions of improvements that have been put forward.

Peck numbers are already included, I think for copper and bronze coins. ESC numbers are already quoted for silver coins. I don't suppose it would ba a problem to put freeman for bronze instead (with your help).

I may mention just general price ranges for unc decimal coins, and probably mention the rarer varieties, the 1983 'New Pence' etc. Perhaps show a few pictures of the different pound coins, and the yearly 'Queen takes dog for a walk' commemorative types! I think it's a good idea to show pictures of the main types (mainly just the different monarchs and reverses), the book would be boring without the odd picture to aid new collectors I feel. Although in the current issue there is, for example a picture of a GVI halfpenny reverse, and also a picture of a EII Halfpenny reverse. To save space I will illustrate it once and state somewhere 'EII reverse as GVI reverse'. I will probably make this members only area a little more exclusive too, so that I can be sure new members can't come in and nose around what is none of their business. I'll look into upgrading all you lot somehow and creating an even more private area for this kind of thing.

Geoff, Points accepted, 1821 is a funny date to start on, it makes perfect sense historically, but little sense numismatically. Perhaps I'll be able to stretch it back, cut out decimal (apart from perhaps a quick mention) and still use the same number of pages. Does anyone think it's of paramount importance to include decimal? If the inclusion of gold would lead to more sales then I'm sure I can squeeze it in, in the future. I do think that most of the collectors that buy the book are probably not collectors of gold coins. I'm sure you can help out somehow Geoff, when I know in more detail waht is needed.

In other words, you really need to know the difference, and it's probably the most common type. You also have to get the grade verified by someone in the know if you're not absolutely sure it's a fine Chris. I sold an 1820 Sov EF with lustre for £850 on the last newsletter, the normal 'most common' type.

Custard, I'm pleased you addressed those points, they are basically the same pros and cons that I came up with, and the possible solutions were: Make the prices right! (with help of forum member researchers and me) Add a few more pages and extend the date range, perhaps to at least 1797 to cover basically all modern milled. The extra paper would put the price up a little, but it would absolutely be cheaper than £18 After that, the books will have no cons. I think a major thing that also needs addressing is the image quality.

I expect to start organising the 2006 edition after the 2005 edition is in the shops, so perhaps October - the new year. It's hard to say before I even know what it will exactly involve. Ok, so volunteers so far are: William Oli Master JMD Penny Master Anyone else, just make yourself know in here!

Basically yes, but not yet. I'll have a look around at what areas you collect (and I think I have a good idea about what the main members collect by now!) and ask for your input when the time comes. Like I say, it's probably too late for the CCGB2004 book, next project will probably be the George III book. I'll need you lot to look in numismatic publication, on websites, ebay etc etc and give me the average prices that you have seen certain ranges or types of coins sell for. (which is not always the advertised price, for example I frequently let coins go for less than advertised price). Maybe I can also get a few dealers postal lists and send them to you for research purposes. All the dealers in the coin year book/coin news that produce a list I will probably contact and pay for the lists. When the time comes I'll pick each of you that want to get involved and try to assign you an area that you feel comfortable with.

Don't go too mad yet William, there's a lot for me to do first. I should be able to finish it over the week. The title is slightly out of focus because to just have text that size would look very mickymouse. In my experience it has to be blurred slightly at the edges to look more professional. As long as it isn't too blurry, which I don't think it is, but I suppose it depends on your monitor.

Eventually the site will live at www.rotographic.co.uk, but for the moment you can find the incomplete working progress here: http://www.coinvaluation.com/rotographic/ Let me know first impressions.

I have a few little bits that I keep, wouldn't really call it a collection, because I find I end up selling a lot of them if someone enquires and offers market value. I have the sabotaged remains of my collections from when I was a kid, but there really is nothing much nice remaining.

Yes, I thought you'd appreciate it, who knows it could launch you into a job as numismatic journalist or author in the future. I will of course be checking everything thoroughly like an editor, but I think it may be too much for me to do it all myself, so it certainly looks like it may be an annual thing at the moment. We'll have to see how it goes.

Thing is chaps, when you've got 100 coins to scan/photograph and you know you'll only get a fiver each for most of them, it can be a drag to scan them all, and it can be tempting to just scan the more expensive ones! It's pretty labour intensive, so I can understand where Colin is coming from. And he probably has enough established customers that trust his grading enough to by the un illustrated coins, so probably doesn't especially need to make images of them.

Thankyou, Seems I've got most of the fathings, halfpennies and pennies taken care of at least!

Well nice of you all to offer to help so far, when I take over from RJ Marles I will certainly need your help! Although he will also be willing to help out I'm sure. But don't forget 1821 - date probably won't be done for a year of so. The most likely update to come next will be 1760 - 1820 (The George III book) and even that will be at least 2 months away. I have to take delivery of the master documents which by the sounds of it are in some kind of old DOS format. I have to convert them to a windows format, and scan lots of pictures too, because the pictures are currently actual greyscale photographs and get added to the text before printing! I should hopefully finish the website (at least a basic version) today, and I'll upload it later.

Thankyou for your support, both of you. To answer your Question Oli, on a good year 20,000 of the books are sold. Perhaps it averages 13,000 or something of the main title (I think it's more than the Coin yearbook!) I'm not sure about the others, I would imagine they are fractions of that. My own sales show that I could sell 350-400 CCGB2004's on predecimal.com in 1 year (using my 7 mth figures). In a year I should personally sell 150-200 Collectors Irish and Collectors Banknotes and perhaps close to 150 Collectors Roman. So using my results as an average, the other books should come to a good few 1000 altogther anually. Other places to monitor prices would include any website that offer coins for sale. I suppose the asking price is all very well, but really we are concerned with the actual selling prices. Perhaps we could ask for the record of sales from Colin Cooke, myself of course, and any other online dealers. As well as subscribing to lists etc (at my expense, I'm not expecting you to shell out).