TomGoodheart

Hi Mitsuko - welcome to the site! I was just browsing and your post caught my eye. Q3 - I shall leave to others since I'm sure someone has an easily accesible list of 20c rarities. I'd have guessed however that your Granddad would have picked out any obvous ones and set them aside. Q1 - quite probably!! Q2 - the first English coins with dates are from the reign of Edward VI but these will be pricy! The first with arabic numerals are the Crown and Halfcrown, but this practice stopped in Philip and Mary's reign when the Shilling and Sixpence were dated instead! Things changed again with Lizzie, with only the Sixpence, Threepence, Threehalfpence and Threefarthings bearing a date. The good news is that Elizabethan coins from 1561 can be had within your budget. Sixpences are a reasonable size and worth a look. I'm afraid the larger denominations, including gold, are undated until you reach the very expensive provincial and siege issues of Charles I. The last hammered coins to bear a date are those of the Commonwealth (1649-60). Hope that helps!

OOh Wow!!! "absolutely no damaging scratches or unsightly creases"!!!! Lizzie shilling And no irritating 'portrait' thing mucking up the front either....!

Yes - contemporary (ie produced at the time) counterfeits produced to trick people into accepting a coin worth less than face value (since in those days the value was related to the precious metal content). And no - contemporary counterfeits aren't always worth less - they are after all interesting from a historical point of view. Some people collect them (I have a small collection of counterfeit Charles I shillings to accompany my real ones) and so, as with any 'collectable', value will depend on how common things are and how many people want them. A specialist collector might pay well for a scarce counterfeit for all I know. If you do a search (I use Altavista, but Google seems popular) for 'fourree', 'denarii' etc you may well find more if you're keen (!) (Doug Smith had a few pics etc on the site I found for example and goes into some detail about how fourrees were produced, which incidentally was still a method used for producing counterfeits at least up to the 17th century))

Another quote from Doug Smith - " From the very beginning of precious metal coinage a certain number of coins were made with a precious metal 'skin' over a base metal core. These 'plated' or 'fourree' (also seen spelled with one 'r' or 'e') pieces were intended to look like their solid counterparts and circulated until the core broke through betraying their nasty little secret." IE they are counterfeits, although he goes on to say he thinks some coins were made by the mint as fourrees (!)

Aha! Courtesy of Doug Smith dougsmith.ancients.info/ gloss.html "Some Roman Republican denarii were issued with the edges of the flans notched. This predecessor of modern reeded edges was cut individually on each coin and varies greatly in depth even on the same coin. Presumably to prove the coin was not plated, this did not work. Fourrees exist. " Hope the link works.....

The values of serrated coins in the Circular aren't any lower than for non- serrated denarii. They therefore appear to form a valid variation of the 'normal' issues and the serrations certainly wouldn't put me off. In fact, given that they appear less frequently, I'd say they make for an interesting area for study. I don't know if Chris or anyone else knows if these serrated coins only appear during certain periods - Republican maybe?

There's a picture of another of these coins (Denarius serratus (Serratus meaning, well - serrated!!) ) of Antonius Balbus in the latest Spink Numismatic Circular so they were obvously issued like this and aren't subject to vandalism as might at first appear. Beyond that, not my area I'm afraid - Sylvester???

I didn't think dominoes had a place in sex. Help - I think I'm missing something!

Yes! I am definately of the smaller maintenance of our destiny brothers! The costliness and promulgation of unfortunates is aberant to me. Please to send details of placement wherein monies can be poured endlessley. In cosiness and world nobility and hope of fleecing of sheep to yarn of dogs that are shaggy. Thankingyou for my opportunity.

Sad, but would you want anyone else choosing coins for you? I'd rather have cash and pick my own! Happy brithday for yesterday Oli! And (without meaning to steal your thunder) happy birthday of today to Levi NI!

I think in this case 'uncirculated' means that due to wear it's no longer circular!

Machin then IRB - don't like the Maklouf 'coupe' at all. (Or is that coupee?) - I just don't think it looks like her at all.

There are two examples of the normal CHRISTO legend and two reading CHISTO in the Brooker collection. I have also seen a few examples for sale here and there with the CHISTO legend. Spink doesn't mention the legend variation but on the basis of the above I'm not aware that it's particularly rare. I'll repost if I find out any different.

Good question Rob - unfortunately Spink don't illustrate the "wide date" in their catalogue. All I can tell you is that the one July 1689 S6583B sixpence I can find illustrated in the Numismatic Circular (Feb 2005 Vol CXIII No 1)has both smaller numerals for the 1689 and letters for July. I'm currently having problems with my email service but will see if I can scan the pic and send it to you. Richard

S6583 is the sixpence. July is 6583B, unless it has a wide date in which case it is 6583BB or is in silver - 6583BBB. Hope that helps!

Like my Dad, most people accumulate their 'collections' from loose change. Unless your Grandad actually bought any of the coins, in which case they may be in better condition, they are unlikely to be worth much at all. Here's a very rough guide. Take a handful of change from your money box. Discard anything over 15 years old - particularly £1 coins which wear badly. See how clear the face and writing is on most coins? Unless your Grandad's coins are very rare or are in at least as good condition as the poorest of the change you have in your hand it's likely to be worth very little indeed. Sorry. Alternative - take the very best oldest coin you have - perhaps a Victorian penny - take a good quality photo and post it on this site (there are guidelines for posting photos elsewhere). Someone can then give you an idea if it's worth anythig at all. Having said that, US dollars and UK silver coins pre 1947 will have some real silver in them (dollars 95% or so and UK 50%) and will have some bullion value. Gold coins, well, gold is gold (unless it's not!) If you just want rid, take them to a car boot sale or online auction site. Otherwise, either save them for the future or make a hobby of them. There are plenty of coin books out there, not least Chris' - see link at the top of the page to Predecimal. Take the nicest coins, identify then and hey - you're a numismatist (well, a beginner at least!) PS - unless you actually ARE a six year old, then writing like one isn't likely to get people to take you seriously. I'm afraid people do judge queries by how they are presented - a quick spellcheck and edit generally makes it more likely you'll get a reply.

Spink is fine but you'll probably want to get more specialised books as your collection develops petendade. Especially if you're getting into hammered. And don't forget Chris' very reasonably priced series!

Sorry petendale Just be happy your coin isn't from 1560 or we'd be arguing whether a martlet is a duck or a raven! OK - you want learning - here's a bit more... The Trials of the Pyx were a way of safeguarding the quality of the nation's coinage. The Master of the Mint was given strict weights and alloy limits for the coinage in a contract from the Crown. Out of every 'journey' (30lb) of coins, samples were removed at random and sealed in a box for regular, roughly annual, 'trials' by a jury drawn from the Goldsmith's Company. The coins were identified by privy mark so that the Master responsible for their production could be identified in case of irregularity. It is also worth remembering that while the rest of Europe adopted Pope Gregory XIII's reformed calender of 1582 and its year beginning on 1 January, this was not the case in England until 1752! So while the New Year was celebrated on 1 January, the State dated it's official year from March 25. This means that the dates between 1 January and 25 March in fact belong to the last quarter of any year!! ie coins produced in February of what we now call 1554 would have been dated 1553! Perhaps that's why the use of dates went out of fashion early on in the reign of Charles I and didn't return until the introduction of milled coinage.

My copy of Spink says the pheon (arrowhead) mark was in use between 1561 and 1565 which agrees with the date on the coin. It is however worth remembering that the mint, or more correctly 'privy' mark was primarily a means of identifying a run of coins for the purposes of quality control through something called the 'trials of the pyx' rather than a means of dating. If the Pyx was delayed for any reason there was therefore the potential for the date of the coin to be out of synch with the given mark. Since I am not an Elizabethan sixpence/threepence/threehalfpence/threefarthing (ie those denominations with dates on them) enthusiast I can't tell you if this actually happened. Sylvester - do you have any information about this?

I think you're right - and are those two legged rhinos instead of leopards?

Gaaaak!!! What the hell do you think he's done with them - tumble dried with a can of Brasso or just a blow-torch and sandblasted!??? As for his 1919 Queen Victorian penny!! Words fail me....

You haven't said if you want them valued for sale, insurance or curiousity. Dealers will give you a price they would be prepared to pay. I am sure Chris will do what he can to help if you wanted to sell - try pm'ing him. Some dealers will value for insurance purposes, normally at a cost. Otherwise, I found my local coin society very helpful. They gave me a written valuation for insurance purposes (and an opportunity to chat with another collector) for nowt! There is a Cornwall Collector's Club listed on the British Association of Numismatic Societies (BANS) website - perhaps try them? Finally, if you feel fairly confident about how to grade the coins, why not get CCGB and check the prices yourself?

Looks OK to me. Contemporary counterfeits normally give themselves away by mistakes somewhere on the coin. Sometimes it's the formation of the lettering - letters either don't 'look' right, are reversed, or mucked up in some other way. Things like shield edges and beading (the bit that makes up the circle between the legand and design) are generally uneven. For some reason counterfeiters almost never own a pair of compasses to draw an even circle.... Details like the royal arms appear to have presented particular problems for several counterfeiters.... For example, this Charles I shilling appears to have a monkey or a fox where the Scottish lion should be! Was there a particular reason you thought your sixpence might be a counterfeit petendade?

I had problems uploading photos when I first joined too. I posted them onto Photobucket Image Hosting and could link from there. There are probably other photo hosting sites on the web you could try.

Hmm.. Several of his previous buyers are people I recognise from their tags, or have done busuness with, so as a seller he looks generally sound. That of course doesn't mean he knows his British coins and could tell a fake bought in good faith. It's the hassle of trying to return the thing if you weren't happy with it... If anyone IS thinking of bidding I'd suggest asking for additional photos and about a returns policy - if you don't get satisfactory answers - back off!