TomGoodheart

I just can't decide whether the nay sayers are right and it will spell the end of the Labour party or it heralds in a new type of politics, where the principle that a political party is only successful if it can exert power by being elected, is replaced by one where working to build openness, justice, benevolence towards others and just plain old ‘fairness’ in society are seen to be of value. But I am hopeful ... .

LOL Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper, Liz Kendall and Jeremy Corbyn... but yes, perhaps as you're most local to AB ..?

Personally I refer back to Spink who say; " Uncirculated. A coin in as new condition as issued by the Mint, retaining full lustre or brilliance but, owing to modern mass-production methods of manufacture or storage, not necessarily perfect." Though I'm not sure it particularly matters what you call it, providing a general consensus can be maintained so that the majority of people can agree and recognise the agreed grade of a particular coin. If Americans can tell the difference between an MS64 and MS65, fine. If as a collector you are happier with a CGS 70 over a 69, the system works. I guess the problem with the older system over a numeric one is that the terms have significance outside numismatic. To describe a car as being in 'fine' condition would seem to be hardly a glowing endorsement, whereas a 'particularly fine Picasso' might be a very different animal. So long as other people get the right idea from a description and don't feel deceived I'm not sure the terms matter. Of course I say this from the perspective of someone who collects hammered coins and doesn't seriously worry about grading. A coin to me is either a nice one that I like or it isn't! OK, it's more scientific than that little bit of subjectivity suggests (I have to work out if I'm willing to pay the asking price after all and so how much I like it comes in there somewhere) but in essence that's how it works for me. Really it seems to me that what we're generally interested in is "Is this coin worth the asking price?" "Do I think it complements my collection?" "If I sell it have I got a decent chance of getting my money back?" And if a grade helps you decide that, go for it! .

Personally I use a three year-old 14MP Olympus point and shoot with macro. As MH says above, steadiness is essential. If you're taking photos hand held you need enough light to ensure the camera exposure is fast. Or a tripod. The coins I photograph are generally toned. Easier to photograph than shiny ones I find and even then you often need to adjust the angle of the lighting to show the detail to best advantage. A lighting set up would probably be more flexible but I'm too lazy so just take lots of shots and choose the one I like best. I also take photos on a surface. But unlike Azda I find a neutral colour is better. Doesn't matter what, as long as the tone is close to that of the coin. Otherwise if I use white the camera adjusts the exposure and the coin comes out too dark and vice versa if I use a black background. Once I have the images I combine the obv and reverse and use a simple picture editor (I use Microsoft Paint) to paint in a background. Depending on whim I end up with either a black or white background. .

They all look as fake as fudge to me. And yet.. people are bidding.

Thanks Christof. To be honest, I'm not sure how workable the whole thing might be. I can't see artists like Georg Baselitz being too pleased if it becomes impossible to sell their work on the international market. I can't see the German government spending money on administrating a process that could involve thousands of small sales of artefacts or coins on ebay.de The British Portable Antiquities scheme is one of the better initiatives for recording the movement of such items but struggles to be funded amongst the arguments as to who should run it and the ever increasing workload ... How will they deal with the work of artist like Kurt Schwitters or Max Beckmann, undoubtedly important German artists but who moved and worked abroad for some years? As for coins, well what about Roman coins, struck within the Roman Empire before the current borders or German nation existed? Are they Italian? How do you distinguish those made for the German parts of Gaul from the Belgian or French? While I quite understand the desire to protect and retain important historical and cultural artefacts I honestly think there are some archaeologists and museum staff who would prefer if it all to remain buried or in the case of art, locked up in the basements of museums safe from those awful people who want to look at or, worse still, handle such things. .

I think the key issues for me are the definition of "cultural goods" and "archaeological value". Until those are clarified I find it hard to say whether it might affect me or not. Though I admit I did sign. I think I got my link from CNG, know Heritage had one and suspect that most major dealers/ auctioneers will be similarly encouraging their customers and clients to sign or comment. Still a matter of 'watch this space' I think: http://www.artlawreport.com/2015/07/16/germany-walks-back-on-proposed-cultural-property-law/ .

I admit to varying success. However using a fairly basic point-and-shoot camera (though it does have a macro setting which I use) in bright (artificial or daylight - I adjust the colour balance with a basic photo editor afterwards to make it look (on my laptop at least) as close to 'real life as I can achieve) and holding the coin in my hand so I can tip/tilt it to best advantage seems to work fairly well.. That said, I've had less pleasing (to me) success with shiny modern coins. Though that could just be that my coin isn't as high grade as I had hoped! As for the original question, I don't have the experience to grade your coins Paul. But your pics always look a tad blue to me. For example, Dave's pic of the shilling has more of a mauveish tone, making me wonder if the background cloth in your pictures is really white? Not that makes a difference to grading. But the colour cast suggests a yellowish artificial light source might have been used and 'in the hand' the coins might look rather different? .

As I understand it coins were either made directly by the Royal (or other) authorities, usually under the direction of a Master of the Mint, or private moneyers were given licence to produce coinage. In both cases there needed to be a means for the Crown authorities to check the quality of coins produced met the required standards. So coins were marked in such a way by use of a private (known to the authorities and Mint Master/ Moneyer) or 'privy' mark. Then if there were problems the King or whoever would know who to hold to account. This was no idle threat. At Christmas 1124, King Henry I summoned all of the English moneyers to Winchester, where most of them were castrated and had their right hand amputated for failing to produce coin of the required standards. Later on other variants were used, such as assayer's marks on Spanish/American silver or engravers' marks on French coinage. This coin for example bears the mark of the Paris mint (A), as well as the cornucopia (mark of the then mint director) and Artemis holding a bow, the privy mark of Augustin Dupré the then Engraver General! Oddly it has no conventional numeric date, simply being marked as an issue of year (L'An) 4 of the Revolution (from September 1795) ... .

I don't believe there's a 'right' and 'wrong'. Classification systems just seem to gain popularity or not. I think the key thing is that the system needs to be simple. But not too simple! For example, Spink numbers for earlier coins often include a wide variety of different styles. 24 numbers encompass the over 30 obverse designs and around 20 reverses of the Charles I Tower mint shilling issues. Roy Osborne came up with a system for more precisely classifying these shillings but while a terrific piece of numismatic research, to know what Os 69/85 will look like requires a jolly good memory or constant access to his paper. Whereas Michael Sharp just followed North's convention of naming types of shillings (based on bust design) from Group A-G, expanded it to include a new group H then numbered the obverse and reverse designs. So Os 69/85 is Sharp E5/2 ... E tells me the general appearance of the bust, 5 that it's the fifth bust design with the 2nd variety of reverse. ... Rather simpler to my mind as there are only a maximum of 7 obverses (paired with 2 reverses) or 5 reverses (paired with 3 obverses) within a particular group. Probably why most specialist shilling collectors use Sharp rather than Osborne. .

But why would you bid £00s on a coin if you don't know enough to recognise a copy?? .

Dealer deal? Six coins from my collection. You can have all six for what they cost me (£850) + post. pm me if interested. .

The Greeks have voted 'No'?? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-33400127 Seems to me that's a bit like a man who on being told "I'm sorry but we're going to have to amputate your leg to save your life" replies "What?!? I don't want that. So if you don't reconsider I shall just shoot myself in the head." .

Yes. CCF requires members to have 250 posts and have been a member for 90 days to sell on their forum. ...

There are no rules about selling like those that Coin Community has Dave. But obviously the idea is for members to let others know about coins they may occasionally have to sell, rather than general advertising ... .

Dunno .. the reverse on looks almost like a Chinese chop mark to me. But as far as I know they were only used on silver coins.. obverse one? Not a clue! But welcome Antoine! .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/george-coins/m.html?item=231586403738&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562 .

Who is the author please Tim? It was printed by Sangster And Fletcher, Paternoster-Row, London. No author listed. It's known as 'The Pictorial Museum', great title. http://www.trademe.co.nz/books/rare-collectable/other/pre-1950/auction-904490330.htm £15 and up on Amazon. .

To me this throws into focus the question of what the EU should be about. Is it to be 'all-for-one, one-for all'? Or is it really Germany and The Rest? I suspect that might in part be answered by whether Monday is about who is going to blink first or finding a solution to this mess that is acceptable to the majority. It kinda feels as if there can be no winners here. Just greater or lesser losses to everyone involved, depending on what happens here on ... .

Had a quick look at Die Welt's site. Bemusement seems to be the current reaction. And interestingly Spiegel has an item on Merkel's failings in the issue ... entitled 'Angela's Ashes' ... Any impression what views are generally in Germany Dave? Here (the BBC) has yet to provide any analysis (though presumably, like when a well-known person is terminally ill, some form of obituary surely must have been written?) Best I've seen is "The Greeks will head back to Brussels on Monday but I suspect the eurozone may take its time. The other 18 countries will say they too have democratic mandates on behalf of their people about ploughing more money into Greece." from the BBC's Europe correspondent Chris Morris. .

Hi Tom thanks! I used to have a few, long gone now. Great area to collect! How are you getting along finding nice examples at the mo? Actually, it's a struggle. There are plenty of dire coins. However those I consider to be better examples are very thin on the ground. People are either holding on to them, or they sell for considerably more than they would have done a year or two back ... ..of course, it may just be I'm getting too fussy in my old age! .

Why? That's what we are here for. Exactly. All the posts about pensions and the state of cider are just to kill time until someone puts up some more photos of coins for us to look at! ... though that might just be me... .

Happy Birthday! I hope it's a good one! .

Afternoon Tim and welcome! Any nice Tower shillings of Charles I amongst your collection? .

I also feel I have nothing to add to most threads, The underlying die doesn't have to be a shilling Ah. Now that's a useful observation Rob! Perhaps a groat?..