The Bee

Many thanks Bernie, really helpful. So at some point I will need to find an A over A. And not at all Martin , I should have posted a clearer picture earlier I will add R over R to the description in the tray Very Best Regards

Many thanks Martin, Here is a close up of the A and another picture of the R in Reg - hopefully a bit better this time

1860 Penny N over N (Z) Gouby Dd [I think !] also possible double struck R in REG Spotted the first error quite easily but it looks as if there is a second one, well unless I've misidentified the penny in which case that'll be the 3rd error !

Hi Martin Many thanks , no its not an I, I think I thrown a bit by the closeness of the back of QV's head to B in Britt which seemed closer than other 6 + G's Currently I only have one example of an 1874H obverse where the sea doesn't cross the linear circle . I have it as 7 + G

Penny 1874 H Hi, Started to sort my Pennies yesterday so I don't totally lost. While working through 1874 penny widths I checked the obverse of one, and it looks a bit different from the rest Its worn, but the back of Queen Victoria's head is almost touching the B in Britt, the rest have a much larger gap. The only Obverses I seem to be able to find seem to be a bit scarce, so I assume I'm missing something obvious. Great to get feedback on what the Obverse is (assume reverse is standard). Any thoughts much appreciated !

FYI I have ordered the 2nd edition updates from Michael Gouby, for the British Bronze Penny 1860-1901 (mine copy being the 1st edition). Apparently not everyone who bought the 1st edition upgraded to the 2nd edition and so Michael had spare copies of the update. The first edition was a really interesting read (well I found it really interesting anyway !). My plan is to re-organize my Bronze pennies more clearly into a "best penny" date run 1860 - 1970 which I can upgrade from time to time. Then using separate trays from 1860 onward I'll use those for varieties / date widths etc. 1860 onwards and label them as I go, so its easy to read what is where at a glance. Clearly it is impossible to have every variety (just as its impossible to collect every 18th/19th century newspaper title - some have tried) but I can upgrade the varieties when the opportunity arises. It will hopefully avoid the pennies getting out of control and help with structure. I will probably also try for a few half penny varieties as well as upgrading and some more farthing varieties over time. I have the beginnings of date runs prior to 1860 with some common varieties (and some fakes/non regal)- but for silver it will just be date runs. Best Regards !

Hi, Just wanted to share a 1862 Penny with raised piece of the metal (probably irregular rather than a dot) above the right leg of R in Victoria (ink or other stain under the R !) Just wondered if anyone else had seen anything similar ? Best Regards

Many thanks Peckris 2. I do now have a copy of the British Bronze Penny 1860-1901 (arrived yesterday) and it is a great read. Interestingly the 1986 earlier volume covering 1860-1970 is only available in 9 libraries (according to World Cat), 8 of which are in the UK and 1 in South Africa. So I have set some searches in hopes one will turn up in time. Very Best Regards

Hi, Apologies ... Was going through 1908 checking dates and found what I think might be ... Edward VII Obverse Gouby B (Freeman Obverse 1*) - tried to tie all the evidence together in the one image Best Regards

Many thanks Peckris 2 ! I'll wait to see if anyone has any thoughts on micro varieties before I post any other date widths I posted under "Ticket Central" three coin envelopes, but didn't want to derail the ticket discussion. They include a sealed one from Spink. My guess is its a 1967 Penny or similar - I will try to open it without damaging the envelope around Christmas And Copper123 mentioned the high cost/ poor return of the the 1875 Farthing in the plain brown envelope, so I thought I'd share an image of the expensive 1875 no H Farthing, along with the holed Jack of Cumberland to Hanover Token from the Baldwin's envelope (there were also a couple of Toy coins and fractional Farthings in the same accumulation) Also attached (from the same accumulation) 1860 Farthing BRIII REG (obviously not , but the top of the T has been very weakly struck only a trace to the left) and and 1861 (much less interesting) Farthing where there has been a break of some kind on the A in Victoria, Very Best Regards

Apologies if this is the wrong place to. I have been occasionally finding damaged tickets but hadn't realised that they might be useful in tracing which collections / auctions coins have been in. Sadly in the absence of tickets I think all I have which are remotely related are: a "modern" sealed Spink envelope (probably contains a penny); a Baldwin's envelope with a holed "to Hanover" token; and a I what might be a pre decimal envelope with an 187 Farthing in it. If I find any tickets that have a number / surname on I will share them

Hi I have just finished pulling together my 1879 Pennies to compare date widths - all circulated coins . Apologies for any duplication. Top left is the narrow 1879 The very worn penny at the bottom of the picture may just be a more worn version of some of one of the others (I have found 3 examples in identical condition) Great to get your thoughts - I'm sure I'm missing a few ! Best Regards

I wonder, could it be the least flattering coin portrait of any GB monarch ! "Everyone likes flattery; and when you come to Royalty you should lay it on with a trowel." Benjamin Disraeli

For 1892 I think I have a worn example of the fatter face. I think when worn you can see a "v" in the chin area. Think I've seen "fatter face" for sale in good condition (possibly EF) but expensive. And sounds a good hypothesis ! If QV was unhappy about it in 1874, then she would probably still be "unamused" at a second attempt in 1889 - 92 . Her chins were looking better in 1896 just in time for her Diamond Jubilee the following year!

Hi, Just a query. I had a look at my "best" 1890 - 1892 Pennies. These examples being circulated show wear on highlights (particularly wreath and berries) but the portrait is okay and QV's chin is clear. My 1890 and 1891 have the fatter chin and 1892 normal chin. So being curious I wondered whether the changeover was clean* or does anyone out there have either a 1891 Penny with a normal chin or an 1892 Penny with the fatter chin ??? Very Best Regards * I will have a look at the rest of my 1891 and 1892 to see if I can find anything

Many thanks for the comments When I joined the list I really didn't think anyone would comment on any of my posts - being a relatively complete beginner I really like blakeyboy's 1880, the correction to the "0" is clear, I assume that followed on from my posting at the the top of the list Thank you PWA 1967 for the comment on the 1896, I had no idea it was scarce. only that its the only one I've found (obviously well circulated). It made me wonder if there was a practice at the Mint, when they has spare time (aside from repairing broken dies) they prepared a die with the first three digits and then just had to put the last digit in, but suffered last digit "creep." Or maybe it simply was done for bet / last day on the job / the heavy head after the big night before ! I wonder if there were letters to the Times about sloppy pennies ! Incidentally Newspapers even early ones were consecutively numbered for each week or day e.g. 1000, 1001, 1002, etc. But I've noticed when it got to Christmas / New Year this is the time errors creep in. You'll find the number doesn't change , or changes by far more than it should. On 1889, both pennies are in decent condition. These were probably purchases to upgrade and probably bought two by accident, rather than the one I needed. I know its a bit numpty, but if you look at the lower of the two QV's and follow the queens eyebrow up to the top, there a clear depression which has the illusion of being roughly triangular (head left from the end of the eyebrow then when it terminates up right and back down right). This has the missing leaf. The nose is different (the right side of the "triangle"-and the nostril is different , as is I think is the chin, possibly the neck, etc. Photographed at a different angle the differences wouldn't be so obvious. I only spotted it because like to handle coins and as I tilted it at a certain angle the sunlight caught it and I saw the area under QV's nose. If anyone has the time / interest and is able to share pictures of other extremes in dates from any year that you've noticed - that would be really helpful Very Best Regards and thanks again

Many thanks Secret Santa It is really helpful to see the examples of the differences in the widths of the date I think I have the 9.5 and 10 Probably though an improvement on1896 and 1897, where the mint staff must have staggered back in to work after a very big night out, or the QA team was unwell ! Very Best Regards

Many thanks Peckris 2 Sounds like there is a lot of variety (or inconsistency) in 1899. Maybe the apprentices had been given a chance to show what they could do ! I wondered would it be possible to advise what the very narrowest and very widest would be ? Very Best Regards

Thank goodness for Secret Santa's wordpress site ! Just checked the leaves and the RE in REG. Victoria "Triangle" has a leaf missing , replaced by hair , and the long tail of the R touches the base of the E ! So this is Mr Freeman's Obverse 13 Whilst Victoria "Smooth" has the leaf and the R and E are clearly separated ... and this is Mr Freeman's Obverse 12 So good I almost added an emoji ! Very Best Regards !

Many thanks Martin That's really helpful thank you. I will wait for it the 1874H to be added and then take a note. When I looked at Richard's site I thought it looked like the right hand image of BP 1874 Nn Very Best Regards Richard

Many thanks Martinminerva I'm glad its of interest. I only started collecting coins again in April this year. Blame it all on purchasing off ebay a "Professional collection book" partly full of Farthings and a small green "coin album" largely full of worn halfpennies - that reflecting on the disappearance of late fathers collection. Also attached picture of 1893 Penny, looks like (top right of the of the "8") might have of been struck over another 8 ? (I assume if correct its another coin from Mr Goulby's book) The 8 is raised above the surface as normal. As opposed to the 8 in the 1860 I posted the other day which appears (with the rest of the date) to be in outline only Be great to get thoughts on the 1863 Halfpenny and 1860 Penny if the images were clear enough - not to mention the 1893 penny Very Best Regards

Possible Reverse Gouby j (Freeman Reverse H) - 7 over 7 ? and Halfpenny 1863 large 3 possibly something going on with the 3 ? Apologies - not sure if these might be of interest on a wet Sunday afternoon I had put this 1874 H aside in the tray to look at again. The tail of the 7 almost touches the H and it looks as if there is some doubling over the 7 ? I wondered if it might be an example of the 7 over 7 ? Also I have a few 1863 Halfpennies . The top line of the three in all my examples joins the curve of the 3 in a straight line. In this example there seems to be a slight curve ? Might just be (unlike pennies and farthings) I have fewer decent quality halfpennies (most being very worn) Very Best Regards - have a good weekend

Many thanks PWA 1967 and Secret Santa Sounds like the "The British Bronze Penny 1860-1901" is quite scarce, but essential reading. I will have to be as patient as I am when newspaper collecting, and hopefully a copy will turn up ! Very Best Regards Thanks again

Hi Apologies , I've had another go at the 1860 penny with the date appearing as an outline Not sure whether these photos might help ? Very Best Regards Richard P.S. Thank you again on the 1890

Thank you PWA 1967 and Secret Santa. By any chance is the book you mentioned by Michael Goulby "The British Bronze Penny 1860 - 1970" ? I've been trying (without success) to track a copy down ! I only recently managed to get Michael Freeman's "Bronze Coinage of GB" 2006 edition (I only had the1985 edition prior to that) On the 1860 I will try to get a better image. My guess is some kind of damage. The date and legend appear in outline only. In the date 1860 the 8 there is an S shape which is thinner at the end and fatter in the middle and the other two parts of the 8 would appear to pass under the S Very Best Regards and thanks again Richard P.S. I think I have found examples of two widths in 1893 and 2 in 1877 (excluding the wider one) just need to work out on the 1877 whether the slightly narrower date one is the scarce one !