colliewalker1

I have just come across the 1797 'cartwheel' twopence which I had not known existed. The details of this coin are 'mind boggling' - diameter 41mm,5mm thick and weight 2oz! I had decided to concentrate on silver coins which I think are more attractive than copper or bronze - but I'm tempted to make an exception in this case as it seems to me that this would make quite a feature in a collection. These coins had a very short life, being - unsurprisingly - unpopular due to their size and weight (half a dozen in one's pocket would be rather inconvenient!) so are presumably quite scarce. I would be interested to know what members think of the collectability of this coin - with the cost of a desirable example being part of the consideration.

What is the motivation? Why do people collect coins I wonder and where is the most satisfaction – in collecting – or having collected ? So far as I am concerned I like coins for their aesthetic appeal –as an example of the engraver’s/die sinker’s art or unusual features e.g the 1797 Twopence - and their link with history. I have been concentrating on 19th century and early 20th century coins – mainly silver and large – Crowns and Half Crowns;large and heavy coins offer the greatest tactile satisfaction when handling them I believe. most recently I have been taking an interest in copper coins. I am aiming to have examples of coins for each reign – in the case of Queen Victoria for example as her reign was so long, examples of different periods of her reign. but would not find it interesting to have, say, the same coin for each year of a monarch’s reign as they would all look alike except for the date! So far as the satisfaction factor is concerned, I can’t see that having a huge collection ( say, 1000 to be extreme) would be particularly fulfilling – individual coins would , in my opinion, cease to be as important as in a collection of only 100: I am nowhere near to even the latter figure at present and will probably never achieve it: perhaps I don’t have what it takes to be a fully fledged coin collector – perhaps there are a variety of types of collector – from ‘small time’ to ‘big time’ – with a variety of in betweens! I am ‘gobsmacked’ to think that collectors will be prepared to spend hundreds of pounds (or even thousands) on a coin: there are things I would much rather have – for the home – than say, a £500 coin!But obviously a lot will depend on what an individual can afford - or wish to afford - on this hobby. I wonder if seeking out and securing a particular coin gives the greatest satisfation of all – like the ‘thrill of the chase’! These are just a few thoughts which might ‘get the ball rolling’ on the subject.

If you are a 'senior' member Geoff that's something else we have in common I can well remember prices of goods like 19s-11 3/4d. You are right about the temptation to be distracted from a collection plan - like Half Crowns from each reign - when 'browsing'lists of coins on offer shows something we wouldn't hav thought of - like a'Cartwheel' Twopence! Like you, although I am interested to see photos of really ancient coins - Anglo Saxon, Roman etc. for reasons I can't explain, I don't feel any urge to collect them.

That's a fascinating and illuminating analysis Sylvester - a well thought out presentation as usual!

When looking at a vintage coin - e.g. an 1826 George IV half Crown in my collection - it is fascinating to speculate on where it has been for the last nearly 180 years. Obviously at some stage these coins would have been withdrawn from circulation – at the latest for this example on the accession of William IV! I wonder what happens to them then - are any released to collectors or are they melted down, in which case the surviving coins we see today owe their existence firstly to owners deciding to hang on to them and keeping them in draws or tin boxes - then the coins passing to descendants/collectors. Presumably collectors have existed for a very long time?! One would have thought that this random preservation of coins would have saved very few compared to the total produced - which makes the fairly easy availability of many vintage coins today rather surprising. Looking at current coinage, the only coins worth saving are – in my opinion – the £1 and £2 coin....

Currently Ebay sellers have 7330 English coins on offer - so they are difficult to ignore! Ebay is not for the unwary - but there is a lot of choice there and if the scans look good and the seller has good feedback, buying - at the right price - should be OK. A good ploy is to check any coin on Ebay in which you are interested with similar coins on offer on a dealer website and compare the quality indicated by the scan - and the price. There are some dealers who have an 'Ebay Shop'and who seem eminently respectable - and will accept returns if the buyer is dissatisfied. What about the argument as regards dealers, that 'if you can't beat them join them'and add some 'tone' to Ebay, with exposure to a vast number of purchasers; oops - that should cause a stir- are you watching Chris??!!! I have bought on Ebay and have not come 'unstuck' yet.

This is an extract from an earlier post in which I speculated on the way in which the Royal Mint dealt with coins withdrawn from circulation. Does anyone know the answer please?

"While modern coinage dies are indeed made by carving, engraving, or otherwise producing a male hub, (actually, modern dies start with a large clay, wax, plaster, or other such model, usually about a foot in diameter, which is then pantograph reduced by machine to produce the male die) from which the female coining dies are then produced" This is an extract from an interesting article on the history of coin making - see URL below I wouldn't have imagined the initial engraving being made on something as large as a foot in diameter! http://tjbuggey.ancients.info/ganoskin.html

I have just bought a reproduction '1879'Young Head Crown - shock/horor this coin is said to be 'solid silver'- and a 'limited edition'. This purchase was partly to satisfy my curiosity as to what a 'proof coin' would look like - and of course a high grade original of that date would be extremely expensive. Although I am a new collector, even I can see that the quality of the engraving is superb - Queen Victoria's hair looks as though she had just emerged from the hairdresser! It is interesting that there are freelance engravers around who can produce workmanship like this: I wonder what they are doing MOST of the time in the absence of full time employment like those at the Royal Mint - or are they freelancers, too engaged by the Mint as and when required I wonder? Apart from the quality of the engraving an outstanding feature is the 'mirror finish'very attractive but it looks very vulnerable to scratching! I can't see any special mark to denote a 'reproduction'( I believe this is a legal requirement?)BUT - the edge of the coin is absolutely SMOOTH although there is the usual 'dotted' milling jusat inside the cicumference.:this looks very unnatural and gives the coin a sharp feel around the primeter:surely no silver original coin would have had an unmilled edge.I would rather have seen a milled edge and some other discrete mark to denote a reproduction.

There is some interesting information on this website about the making of coin dies - its an American site but no doubt the processes will apply universally www.fact-index.com/c/co/coin_die.html

This is a VERY interesting thought - is it speculation or is it how engraving is really done now I wonder?

Here is the URL for the relevant Ebay( ) page which has good photos of this repro coin.For some reason the field area has appeared as black - but it is VERY highly polished silver! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...item=3933701033

"A thing of beauty is a joy for ever" John Keats

Presumably we are not talking of restrikes here but proof versions of coins currently circulating. On the subject of restrikes - certain countries have been issuing them long after the coins in question ceased to be in general circulation. The Royal Mint don't seem to go in for restrikes - surely these would be extremely popular and very profitable for the Royal Mint. It would be interesting to know to what extent obsolete dies are kept: reproduction coins can fill a useful niche - but genuine restrikes would be something else - but obviously EXPENSIVE! Your information Emperor Oli, on the history of coin collecting is very interesting indeed - thankls for that

THIS is the big issue - if B liar-sorry, Blair -had told Parliament and the country the position as it REALLY was it is very doubtful indeed that he would have had majority support for going to war.As he had already promised to support his big strong friend Bush, he couldn't risk not getting this approval;so with the aid of the 'real Deputy Prime Minister' - Alistair Campbell - he cooked up a false prospectus for going to war. So is 'Trust me Tony'fit to be our Prime Minister - not in my opinion.

This is a very understandable point of view, although not my own. To draw a comparison in another area,for those interested in art and hanging pictures on their walls, reproductions of famous paintings will give them a lot of pleasure ,when owning the original is as likely as winning the lottery!

I hope that Im not uttering an obscenity but do reproduction coins have any place have any place in a collection? From the photos that I have seen these can look very attractive and do show what a 'proof' version(which might be very difficult to find - or afford') of a 'very vintage' coin looks like. Are there 'approved'productions - for quality - of reproduction coins?

Yes, looking again at Ebay there are a number of 1879 reproduction Crowns on offer – in a variety of metals - copper, a golden alloy as well as silver: obviously the latter is more realistic although I can’t understand why the background is so much darker than the patterned areas. I also can’t understand why anyone would choose a copper or ‘gold’ version – except that they are cheap at £9.99 instead of £24.99. As Chris says its outrageous that it isn’t made clear – in this particular case anyway – that the ‘coin’ is a reproduction – confirming the perils of Ebay for the unwary!! Bearing in mind that ownership of a genuine 1879 Crown is an impossibilty, buying a good quality reproduction must have some appeal for many collectors. I am very interested to learn that the renowned Spink organisation have beeninvolved in the sale of such replicas, which does lend respectability to the concept. I have seen reproductions of VERY early English coins on offer on a dealer website: they are quite lowly priced and from the photos anyway look sharply imprinted and attractive.Here too, buying the genuine article would be unrealistic for many and these copies could be an intersting alternative. Geoff T sums it up when he says that these reproductions are handsome in their own right.

This coin offered on Ebay (auction ends 11.27am 13/10/04) is described as"G.B.Victoria PIEDFORT THICKNESS 1879 Pattern Crown" and is said to be hallmarked by the London Assay Office. According to Collectors Coins - Great Britain 2004 - it merely says "offers for this exceed £15,000" - nothing under Fine/Vf/EF. Tony Clayton says that this Crown is extremely rare - and here it is on Ebay with a current offer of £33.33. Do the words "Proof Pattern" rather than just "Proof"mean that its a reproduction? It certainly LOOKS very desirable but it surely can't be genuine. Presumably even as a 'phoney' it has SOME value Members' comments will be awaited with interest! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...item=3934208221

Even this spurious information referred to BATTLEFIELD weapons - whereas this was known to persons close to TB HE thought it referred to STRATEGIC weapons. What does this do for our 'leader's' credibility? Im afraid that TB is naiive in the extreme - what about his bright idea that unruly yobs should be taken by the police to the nearest cashpoint to withdraw the cash for an 'on the spot' fine? What world does he live in?

Particularly since the advent of the present government, headed by 'trust me' Tony ( ) I have come to distrust professional politicians - both for their dishonesty AND incompetence. I equate them with sharp salesmen - never lost for words - and very insincere. I wonder how many cabinet ministers could make a successful career in commerce? Very few - if any - in my opinion, and yet they are 'running'(joke!) Great Britain UK for heaven's sake.We would be much better served if the country could be managed by true 'Captains of Industry - well one can dream! :

I have come across this Septimus Severus Silver Denarius "stunning EF" AD 194 coin. It looks as though it has just come from the mint in Ancient Rome The 'Buy It Now' price is £59- I know I'm only a beginner but to me this seems too good to be true - or are Roman Coins always this cheap? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...item=3930046594

Well, let's chuck a brick in the pond everybody It seems to me [and I am only a beginner]that a coin shows two kinds of surface deterioration [a] aging/toning - silver for example can darken considerably with oxidisation darkening due to an acumulation of dirt:the effect can be to make the coin look quite unattractive. I can understand an objection to polishing away the aging/toning but not to removing the dirt - perhaps accumulated over a century or two.Even with polishing it can be argued that it is a 'plus' to see the coin as bright and shiny as it was when new. Otherwise why pay a premium for a BU coin? Cleaning improves the contrast effect of the engraving(if that's the right word)and surely the more one is able to admire the engraver's work the better.... So far as the reduction in value attributed to cleaning is concerned that doesn't concern me - I don't anticipate reselling - I just want to admire the coins I have I will now prepare for some more bricks - directed towards me!!!!

These coins look in remarkable condition bearing in mind they are uncleaned and scanned through plastic. The Treasure Trove Valuation Committee must have been feeling in a generous mood when they awarded you the magnificent sum of £35 for the Edward I and Edward II coins........ I am obviously a 'heretic' as regards cleaning - I like cleaned coins( ) although these surprisingly, don't look particularly in need of it!

Decent Edward VII Half Crowns are very hard to find and are expensive. This example looks pretty good and the 'Buy It Now'price looks reasonable at £25:the detail on the reverse side is all there - but it doesn't look very sharp.Is this one of those cases where perhaps the scan/photo isn't quite doing the coin justice through lack of contrast in the image? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...bayphotohosting