Peter

There are enough collectors who love assurance from a page of Ebay waffle rather than risk a live auction. Overgrading is a personal thing,but most educated collectors look through the grade.TPG coins sometimes fall short of their stated grade...indeed some appear to exceed and vary also between grading houses. Shill bidding happens on Ebay...I can assure you it also happens in Auction houses...(a good friend is a fine art auctionner). At the end of the day all the London coins listed are decent and I look forward to seeing the shinanigans unfold

My thoughts as well. It needs to grab the publics attention. I don't even check modern coins (apart from 20p's olympic 50p's & 1988 £1's)oh dear...In falling into the abyss.

The prices are to a large extent the result of ignorance based on perception due to collectors failing to do due diligence. In many instances the prices are less than the sums paid for uncirculated currency pieces which in turn is down to the larger collector base. I think patterns are wonderful things with designs that can be artistically quite imaginative. The most I have paid for a George III copper pattern halfpenny is £1250 which compares very favourably with say the several thousand that would be required to buy an 1862 bun head halfpenny with a die letter beside the lighthouse in comparable grade - if you could find one. And if you think that is comparing chalk with cheese, the decimal patterns of the 1850s would again cost less with only a couple of very attractive and desirable pieces commanding more. I have a few modern proofs but they aren't my thing.Peck,Montague etc spent considerable time and resource on patterns but I tend to skip over these pages. Maybe we graduate onto proofs or patterns as most young collectors have to start on cheap currency coins....probably I won't graduate and stick with currency.Even when I sell a NF gothic florin on Ebay I still regard it as its spending power over the years,what it has purchased,how many times it has changed hands and even today its bullion value as scrap silver. A collectable pattern has sat in a tray smiling prettily at its owner saying "you can look ,but don't touch" Maybe that is why I prefer the real thing to plastic.

Fhank you Matt...they just get on me farthings.

How does the Turkish bank work?Their inflation and buying power against £ or $????? As for buying a financial product...apologies for any forum members involved in this industry.... You can use the internet,financial tips in papers and your own judgement(gut feeling) to buy a few different shares. Your coin collection is your sons inheritance so buy using your knowledge. A toy Porsche to match his Dad's(real one)or a car from your home City Going back to the coin option...it would be a good idea to slab it.

Don't forget the lads proper present.A decent size diecast car,plane or model ship. Or maybe an England shirt Another idea would be a piece of Scottish hammered....as long as you can get the glue marks off where it was stuck in the sporran

Gold in top grade with no wear and only a couple of tiny marks will win hands down unless the lower grade piece is an acknowledged rarity whose supply is far outstripped by demand. Spink prices them reasonably similarly as a couple of hundred either way is not really here or there, but 1832 is flagged up as a date for counterfeits, so do some homework before you buy. PS. Why do you wink your wife in public, or is it a coded message? Just because Dave missed an "O" I think it must be a Scottish thing...what with battered mars bars,men wearing skirts,big ginger men,tossing the caber...funny race really.

Thanks Colin & Joey. Both the single coin on the database and the one pointed out by Joey have the halved rose and castle mark. The castle is very clear, being in higher relief to the rose sticking out of the left side and is of a consistent size when compared to others with the same degree of clarity. This must suggest a single punch was used for the mark. Compare that with my halved rose mark and you will see that my coin has a very blundered mark which is typical of filled and recut dies. The castle appears to have a rose shape superimposed on the coin, i.e. the castle was punched to a shallower depth compared to the rose. This would be expected if the die had been hardened previously. Surely on a forum where the number of penny collectors is on an industrial scale there must be someone with an example. The silence is deafening. Ahh but pennies have to be post 1860 and be recorded by Peck,Freeman,Gouby & Satin etc. I would confess P&M pennies have sucessfully slipped by my net over the years. Thanks for the info Rob.

Sadly Dad had an enthusiasm for 50p pieces with the hands on, so I only got face value! The few pieces of silver I sold to Chris a while back. As to the purchase, when we got back from the jewellers, Wifey threw a wobbly about me selling off the family , er .. gold. So .. I've just ordered the coin. I'll be paying for it with my next five years' birthday and Christmas prezzies! Hopefully it's still available .. and when it arrives I'm as pleased as I hope to be! Dealer's pic: That looks a very nice strike.What ref. is it? It's nice to see who is wearing the trousers....well sort of. I suggest things to the wife.I then exagerate the price and then usually worm my way in with good deeds. I hope you get your coin.

So let's see, what have we got to look forward to... More riots Hunger strikes in Ireland Another pointless war a Miner's strike the Battle of the Beanfield (Dale Farm?) Deregulation of the Financial Industry More riots a nuclear disaster Stock market crash the disintegration of a superpower and the Poll Tax to wrap up the decade... I think it was Mark Twain who said History doesn't repeat itself, but it always rhymes. What I can't understand is the the powers that be not banning all these loan firms,ambulance chasing,miss selling etc and actually spin doctoring UK products. Everything is being produced in Asia from computors to pencils and shipped into the UK in vast containers.The French would be blocking the ports. Even Dr Martens and Dyson cleaners are being manufactured in the far east. There will be more riots because the masses are envying their neighbours. The financial industry is bent but this has always been the case its a natural human trait. OK lets bring back the 80's.In the early 80's I was single,no £ pressure,Ipswich Town were Englands best team .I had lads holidays I had a motorbike,I could abuse my body and still get down the pub the next lunchtime....it wasn't all bad.

I'm with declan, they are two difference coins so I need to be able to distinguish between them. I have wondered it you could lay the coin on a transducer and give it a frequency sweep to find the resonant frequency. It would be different for different size coins but it wouldn't take long to compile a table for the complete range of coins. I'm sure you would get a different beep with a metal detector.

My thoughts : 1. There is no added numismatic value for the sixpences and threepences depending on silver content - they aren't even mentioned in catalogues and price lists. Therefore the difference between the two types won't be a factor in any grade above Fine (and below that they aren't worth collecting). 2. Therefore the only time it's important is when you want bullion value from worn coins. I would have thought that at that stage, there would be quite a difference in colour between the two? After all, the Mint got the first attempt at the new alloy badly wrong, and 50%-silver coins of 1920 and 1921 get discoloured and ugly. I realise that's not a scientific test, but it could help. But, I'm kind of wondering what profit there might be in cornering the market in worn 1920 6d's and 3d's, in order to cash in on the tiny difference in bullion value with coins that small. It seems to me that the costs incurred in trying out a definitive test would negate most of the profit? The words "worth" "trouble" "more" "it's" & "than" come to mind. Yep...100 of the more silver blighters will be worth approx £20 more...thats 20p for a different ding...oh damn which pile did I put that one in. I would be bored after 5 dings and the rest go in the pre 47 pile.

LOL I did read an article about bins of Georgian silver. I think there's a bit of concern in the antiques trade about quality items being lost. As for my gold cross, I was offered £120 and £128 by two jewellers. Since I can get £160 from the people Chingford mentioned and apparently £169 from a Birmingham firm that deal online, that's disappointing. I'd really have preferred it to go to someone who'd wear the thing, but 30% more is more towards the coin I want ... So I'm still considering my options. I'm sure most of us have accurate scales and know exactly what to expect.The way things are going you could wait and hope for more for your scrap.However 5 years ago who would of thought 2oz of scrap 9ct would buy a £600/700 quality coin. When I was a lad my grandfather always gave me a florin when he saw me.He knew I liked pre 47...thanks grandad and lucky I didn't buy 5 packets of cola spangles...I still have my own teeth to prove it.

I would prefer to do it in person and a local market stall is giving £11 g for 9ct.This is fine for broken jewellery but there must be a premium for nicer stuff. I also have a couple of non working gold ladies watches which I want to dispose off..watch this space. One good thing coming out of this is the melting down of rubbish silver coins and Joe public releasing some better pieces into the market.No dealer will melt down VF+ gold or silver will they? I have a load of worn (you can't even see any milling) Charles 1 coins with Carlise besieged on the packets which I shall melt down later today.£1g can't wait.

That's just what my wife used to do in her informative years. Although I let her use the washing machine now though. As long as your wives don't beat the washing on your rocks I think its going to be OK. Spam is nice with a bit of branston or raw onion.Plus I use it sometimes as fishing bait. A cracked spambot with a modified effigy George V penny playing on a Xbox...WHATS ALL THAT ABOUT?

How was the coin show Bob? We're off on holiday today and the area has a couple of coin shops I'm on a geology walk Tuesday,I've packed my beachcasters and the mobile is off. There is a broadband hotspot in the vicinity so my eldest is tasked with sorting this.

Get the toothpick and ammonia out. When actually was the open 3 discovered.There maybe 100's lurking in car boot sales. BTW nice coin.

The more I look at the reverse the smaller the horse seems compared to St George....and the dragon is the size of a cat.

Hi & Welcome It will be interesting how this develops. A minority collector interest but youy never know.

A copper coin with verdigris is a big no.Upon removal (or attempted)a scar/hole will be left. A patina will only occur if its been incorrectly stored ie nailed to a weathercock on a church roof. I have a couple of copper coins which came out of the ground (dry sandy soil of the brecklands)these are very dark but pleasant enough. My copper is surrounded by silica and kept at a fairly constant temp 15-25c.I've heard about so many disasters with copper.

I couldn't accept a harshly cleaned coin or even a barreled ancient.I don't mind the black gunk removed from silver (or even accetate improved silver....in moderation).Gold won't need anything more than hot water and a PAT dry....Copper forget it. I don't collect medals but I have a few inherited and a couple have obviously been polished.They have retoned nicely. Again with coins its horses for courses and if we all had the same expectations there would be just one series of very expensive coins.

I've seen Asian (mainly Indian) coins similar to this but not taken a huge interest. I am guessing here but only a few hundred years old. Try Coinpeople which although US based have a few interested parties.

With a good photo it may make a bit more on Ebay,it looks a reasonable example.

A story I recall from a farthing dealer was that he went to look at some farthings belonging to a recently deceased old gentleman.His fairly elderly son who was a handyman had screwed them to a piece of oak and then polished them. I confess to soaping silver and picking away with a softened toothpick and I'm quite happy with a certain about of discreet cleaning to hammered. Prior to the wide distribution of photographic images description was everything.If auction houses can't get it right they should be told. I sold a nice cleaned Victorian 1/- on Ebay last year.The picture I supplied didn't make the cleaning obvious but I made it clear in the description.It drew a lot of interest and went for silly money.I got + feedback.Obviously a cleaned coin is acceptable to some. I think its been mentioned in another thread that the Germans like cleaned coins.

Start them all at 99p with £1 postage and see where you end up.You can't lose or gain much. You will however have the hassle of getting paid and posting numerous packages. An alternative would be a £75 BIN with best offer. they look quite modern and are probably cupronickel, but as said kennedy hlaf is silver Buy your books Patrick .The 68 Kennedy half $ is 40% silver.