Sylvester

2 points;- 1) Cabinet friction, ever wondered why i moved out of Modern Milled, it was because alot of the really nice coins i had (or that i bought) usually had the fine lines all over the surface which was indeed cabinet friction. It appears Early Milled is not as suceptable and hammered is hardly a problem at all. 2) Haymarking... if i haven't heard at least 7 different reasons for this i wouldn't be surprised... i've come to the conclusion that no-one knows truely what causes it. I've heard of rusted dies, hay being thrown into the alloy as it cooled, cabinet friction, other dies issues such as foreign particles becoming trapped between the die and the blank in the process of minting...

I also forgot about the stupid prices they'll pay for brand new coins in MS69-70 grades. This is before we get to registry sets and pop. figures... look i have it in MS66 with a pop. figure of 4 and none higher, and i reckon mine's the best of those...

How do cabinets work... well inside them you have drawers with coinsize recesses drilled in (all made of mahogany), the recesses have a felt lining placed inside and Bob's your uncle it's as easy as that... but you wouldn't want to store proofs in a cabinet, cos the felt might leave bits of fluff on the surface. Anything else is fine though.

i knew you were in the US that's why i brought it up. I think you've probably hit the nail on the head there... Brits tend to collect for the fun of it or as a thrilling persuit rather than as a money venture (note i said collect, not deal... dealers are a whole different kettle of fish), Americans on the other hand always seem to have another agenda there in the background. One of liquid assets, this is why slabbing took off. Most collect for the thrill of the hunt but many collect either with the intention of making a turn around profit somewhere along the line... hence why they buy MS64 slabbed sliders and crack them out and resubmit the coins over and over till somone grades it MS65... The problem when you have a cabinet is that if you buy the coins in 2x2s then you have to destroy the 2x2 to get it out, all very well and good till you come to sell and you've got no medium to store it in (yes i've been on the end of that one)... The pro-side is that cabinets are supposed to help keep your coins protected better (don't ask Oli about that), it was the case many years ago that most people kept them in cabinets hence the term cabinet rub on a coin. Plus they are classier... but the safest way to preserve a coin by far is to store it in a glass jar (no word of a lie) [as long as it doesn't rattle around too much]. The real proside to cabinets though is it keeps your collection together rather compact, moreso than having a few boxes full of slabs.

I've no problems with it... At the end of the day Chris is the one that has to maintain and run the site, if he thinks combining the two will be more benefitial then who am i to stand in the way... i'll just adapt to the changes.

I think i should bring this up now... I dunno why but there is a distict difference between UK and US storage ideas. The Americans tend to store coins i 2X2s, flips, slabs and other such things, Brits tend to go for cabinets and trays... any reason for this marked difference?

Well i don't have any cartwheel stuff so i'd have to have the images supplied. Actually i came across my first Cartwheel 2d in person a few weeks ago, man they are huge the thickness got me... just to show how much attention i paid to this denomination i always thought it would be bigger than the penny but not much thinker... bloody hell, no wonder they were unsuccessful. It took me a whole of 14 years just to actually see one in person, i've still never held one. But i've held a gold noble... strange eh? (mind you i know which one i'd rather hold too... ch'ching) I don't have any shiny 2ps either... And it's gonna be difficult to get the overlapping images with the stuff i'm using but i'll give it a try for nothing.

I did as well and so far that looks to be the best design for a cover I've seen. Well the final decision lays with Chris at the end of the day... he's probably working on something as we speak.

Well you can scratch gold off for a start... And Chris wanted to keep expenses down, it's all very well having loads of coins on the front but they cost money. Plus i thought he wanted a more modern look (which suggests minimal to me). Another thing proofs are a nightmare to photograph/scan.

Yes that's quite important do you have an early s or a late s?

Yeah but you said yourself 8b shows a trifolate crown, not a bifolate... so collar or no it doesn't matter, it can't be the same... Although actually from my Coincraft it show 8b without this collar... i don't think it is a collar you know, some of the necks do go to the hair... What's the S like?

The crown on yours is more like this one... http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/SE/SE1459.html it's thinner.

I think your's may well be an Edward I, and i'm sure it's a double chin you know not a collar. Maybe double struck? I know the N's can suffer from doubling perhaps the chin can too...

Well here's an S.1546 http://www.gilliscoins.com/coinage/english...pic_weh5119.htm

Is that a trifolate crown (look at the prongs on the edges of the crown), two blobs = a bifolate, three a trifolate. Looks like it could be three but maybe that's just a bead and it's really a bifolate crown.

Erm grade... argghhh! At a guess AF, seen quite a bit of wear, look at the lis on the crown... but still some detail visable. Actually the crown is usually the way to figure out what class these things belong to... if all else fails look at the crown.

Coincraft are fantastic for Edward I and II practically every single class of penny is pictured (only about 2 or 3 subvariants that aren't), the North catalogue isn't too far behind. Coincraft are just ahead of North because not only do they show pictures of most of them, they also show line drawings (like basic sketches) of them all too... (like you'd find in the Hawkins book). But when it comes to Edward III, all of them revert to Spinks/Seaby style...

And for those of us doing this on paintbrush picture? (yes me!), can you do arched lettering? I would do it in word but my word is down and refuses to work without crashing the computer... I'm sure you could do the arch stuff in word and drag it to pbp... i get quite inventive you know...

That would do lovely... Erm about the gold, i haven't tried... i can't really do gold, but the printers probably can. I wanted to move away from blue; Chris said he wanted to break away from the old style covers and the last one was blue... so i figured blue needed a rest (pity cos i like blue). I'll see what i can do with your florin... it'll be a while though...

Well you havethe coin in hand so you can see things i can't make out properly... I don't have any pictures of those classes either... Did i mention Seaby wasn't much good for hammered coinage? (Or Spinks if you prefer!) Doesn't matter they are both the same... Opposite of a reversed n is a normal n!

You know i reckon it could be Edward I... EDW R ANG DNS HYB I think Classes 15b and c are EDWA R, not EDW R... Hmmm (only just spotted that).

I though for a minute it was S.1526 (which would have made you very happy), but yours has Roman N's... If it's Edward III (which i have my doubts now, see below) then i think it's from the third coinage... probably S.1545 or S.1546 So the cross probably is the one you said but not very well defined, probably from a later die striking hence why it's joined up looking more like cross 1, than the patee ones you thought. I've looked at the class 'C' coins that have the Cross 1, Closed E, wedgetail R, and Roman N's pretty much like yours but they look more like the groats than they do your penny. See... S.1584. I do believe however that it might not be Edward III at all, it's probably class 15b or c of Edward II. Which would explain why class 15d was so close... the only difference between classes b-c and d (other than the price tag) is the N's. See what you think. I'm gonna have a look through Edward I later... (if in doubt say what i always say... Cl 4d)

I did one with a florin but it looks naff... the reason being is i forgot to lighten the florin up... blued it yes, lightened it nooo.

Obviously if you want to keep the same kind of style then you just have to change the picture and the colours... Does the single colour idea work though? It looks better without the writing over Vicky's face... I'm tempted to try an orange/red one. What do you think about having the last two digits of the date in a different colour? Or would you rather prefer it all in one? And more importantly what does Chris think since the decision is his at the end of the day... i could do with some guidance. Anyone got a picture of a high grade lustrous Edward VII florin i could borrow? I've got a low grade one i might give it a try. I think the Edward one would look better with the blue... sea and all.

Yeah i thought the same about the text... i'm not sure about bringing the colours colser together though, i don't want them blending in...