Rob

This post will probably open a big can of worms. If you definitely want a graded date run, you have set your own criteria, so will have to bite the bullet and buy another. It really depends on what you want as the US market is firmly addicted to slabs, and dare I say it, afraid to contradict the 'experts'. You bought the coin because it looked good, and for most people, that will and should be the determining reason. Personally, I think people should collect for pleasure, and not as an investment. If you are thinking along the lines of the second, then you will have to go for higher grades, as that is what the 'investor' is looking for. The phrase on the reverse of the details slab says it all. 'Details grade does not determine value' implies the converse, i.e. a graded number will dictate the price you must pay. Clearly this is nonsense, as no two coins are the same, and by extension do not necessarily pass the 'does it look nice?' audition, even if the TPG thinks they are equal. The top end of the US market, or those trying to outdo the other slab collectors in the competitive most highly graded type sets promoted by the TPGs, is driven by someone else's opinion, and not that of the person who is spending the money. To a large extent, slabbing is a triumph of marketing over a willingness on the part of the collector to do the necessary spadework. Horses for courses, I'm afraid. Yes, a TPG submission is a bit of a lottery. However, for those who collect the coin rather than the number, slabs can offer countless opportunities to acquire incorrectly identified coins; or correctly identified coins, but in a slab too lowly graded to attract the money irrespective of its appeal. From a personal perspective, maybe 20% of the hundred or more slabs I have bought have fallen into one of these two categories, with lower MS numbers frequently looking better than the higher graded examples from named collections, the latter of which apparently deserve a better rating. And a details or maybe a VF or whatever grade on a coin where I am struggling to find any suitable example is a no-brainer, with bargains aplenty. That can be really good. Even if you are firmly on the slabbing route, there is nothing wrong with buying raw coins if you have familiarised yourself with what constitutes an uncleaned, naturally toned, and basically untampered with, example. For the beginner it is a steep learning curve with mistakes necessarily being made to provide the experience of what a 'good' coin looks like, but it gets easier with time. i.e. just like everything else in life. It is the numismatic equivalent of the saying, 'the harder I practice, the luckier I get'. Slabbing attempts to remove this learning curve by saying 'you don't need to know, just accept what we say', leading to a healthy income for the TPGs with their captive adherents. Ultimately, the decision is for you to decide what you want. Collecting isn't a p'ing competition, just something for personal satisfaction and interest.

It has taken me 20 seconds to work out what you are talking about.............

There is no appreciable output of evasion pieces after they were banned by Parliament a few years before this coin's date. Coins have always been copied, but a decade or more before this the main reason was to facilitate trade due to the copper shortage arising from the Napoleonic War. By 1826, copper supplies were stable and tbh I'm struggling to think of any examples. To my mind it has to be either an advertising token or some type of play money, probably struck in the late 19th century at the earliest, or certainly after the large coppers had been demonetised in 1869.

On the not entirely convincing point that the date seen is contemporary, 20 grams is in the same ballpark as the intrisic value of a penny. You don't make a forgery for what you could get for scrap. Only if it commands a premium would you make it which says something a bit later struck for collectors. By that time you are past the major issues of copper tokens.

Not a clue.

A bit like in March 1979 when we were discussing where to go caving that weekend. I suggested going down Ireby Fell Cavern on Ingleborough. Some cheeky bugger quipped 'That's Rob-speak for I have fallen over'. Wouldn't mind, but it came from the mahf of a Lahndoner.

Nobody knows everything about a subject, so you can always add to your knowledge. That is why a selection of reading material is a must. Too much is taken for granted as well. Last weekend I was asked what moneyer and mint a coin was from. Being a collector medieval pennies for at least the last 30 years, I had assumed that he would have a copy of North, but no, he didn't. Personally, I couldn't see how he could cope without what is a basic reference, but clearly he can as he knows more about his Edwards than I will ever know. The key is not necessarily going back to what you have previously visited, but rather to discuss things. It doesn't matter if your views are complete b*****ks as long as you stimulate discussion. That is when things are learnt. It is why the anodyne 'like' button should be banned as it makes people feel they are contributing, when in fact they are saying nothing. Only by taking a contrarian view can you bring out alternative theories - and that is how knowledge makes progress. Play devil's advocate (giving a thumbs down is not enough). Either one person will have to justify their argument (in which case the other may learn something), or the second person has to back up their disagreement with reasoning. It's a win-win situation. That is why all views on a forum are welcomed and valid. They might be shot down, but that shouldn't be taken to heart. Every day I learn something new and I know I am not alone in that.

For the vast majority, that is simply a function of subject interest. Anyone interested enough in their chosen area can get up to speed within a few years at the most.

Most cheap coins will stay cheap and most expensive ones today will continue to hold their value. The biggest impediment for you is knowledge. If you stop worrying about their value, and concentrate on their numismatic qualities, the question of collecting what you can afford rather than what is really cheap will determine your collecting habits. You will like things that are beyond your pocket (we all do), but even the more expensive relative to your pocket can be acquired without concern once you have done your homework.

You have just made a very good case for collecting the unspendable.

No reason to wonder. The money is in the 50p, £1 and £2 coins, but in terms of effort expended does not represent a huge return given any sale will likely be through ebay with its fees and then posted with the Royal Mail.. If the three are selling more individually than the sets are as a whole, then breaking them up is a no-brainer as a dealer, but less clear cut on eBay with the relevant fees and costs taken into consideration. I can sell £1 coins at any time for now - I think I only have 1 or 2 left. But I still have a healthy selection of 1/2p to 20ps. These I could use for small change at any time should I need to. There are collectors of all denominations, but most do just the three mentioned. As a rule, the question should be 'why do you not break them up?' Given the involvement of the general public as opposed to knowledgeable numismatists, I still think this feeding frenzy will end in tears.

What you mean to say is it didn't occur to you to keep them in a safe place, given it was your collection. For anyone with no interest in numismatics, a coin is just a thing which you can use to exchange for goods or services. To be hoarded or p'd against the wall - nothing more. Mustn't lose sight of the fact that collectors are very much the exception, not the rule. Thankfully, anything pre-decimal is no longer circulating, otherwise we would all be at greater risk of having our collections spent.

It's easy enough to scan through. You'll remember most of it either word for word or with the general meaning firmly imprinted in your mind. And that which you forget didn't interest you in the first place. That's why a book is so useful. You flick back and recheck what you thought you read. Can't do that with a fleeting glimpse of a webpage, because when you try to find it, the page is updated or gone awol. A book is structured, a forum thread not, and is why you have to repeatedly post the same thing. The most popular questions asked on this forum have been asked many times and the answers given a similar number of times. Funny how nobody finds those previous threads, but I guess that's the way of digital man.

What I don't understand is why you don't just take it to a bullion dealer and scrap it. The hole will make it only worth melt whatever the outcome, and they will be able to tell instantly in hand whether it is gold or not. If a modern thing and made of so-called white gold, then it will still be worth bullion because it isn't original. The original gold coins would be struck in conventionally coloured gold, and if it was struck in platinum (not impossible, but doesn't explain the copper colour), then it would still have bullion value. The biggest bonus would be that you could get an unambiguous decent piece without a hole from the proceeds of the sale as it is the sort of thing you should be able to pick up for around the melt price. I'm not sure where this thread is going. You say you have a gold piece. Others think it is plated something. This isn't going to be resolved by universal agreement.

Yes. Funny silver too.

A Henry VII mm. dragon, is an unaffordable Hobson's Choice coin for me. Ah well, hope springs eternal. Better buy a couple of losing lines for tonight's lottery.

A lot of these come up looking pitted.

I still maintain cubing is just bad spelling. The apposite Ballsie75 couldn't even get his name right.

Can't differentiate between a really nice example of this or a really nice example of that. A coin that stands high and proud by a wide margin above all the other coins in a collection looks out of place. A collection needs a bit of balance to be aesthetically pleasing.

Good grief. I had assumed it was abbreviated text speak for clubbing (that's going to clubs for those who don't understand). As bad as my son. Me: 'Do you want a cup of coffee?' Son: 'I'm good.' Me: 'Sometimes you are, sometimes not. Anyway, do you want a coffee?' Son: 'I'm good.' Me: 'You still haven't answered the question.' Son: 'No padre, I don't.' So by deduction, am good means do not. Who could possibly have guessed that? I appreciate that all languages evolve, but at times I might as well be in a foreign country for all I understand about a conversation.

And I've found a copy of part 6 of 5 - the lots that missed the sale were included at a later date.

Get Dave Groom's two volumes on bronze and Cu-Ni. The Identification of British 20th Century (insert your own metal) Coin Varieties. DaveG38 on this forum is the person concerned. He might have a spare copy. As with any list it is continually being extended, but is a good start.

Most of the 2E images I have are quite well centred with a full ring of border teeth. What I was thinking of is things like the B of EBOR has the small protrusion above the top of the B from underlying detail, but then the letter positioning relative to the border teeth is all wrong, or the king's crown is too high relative to the inner circle. The stippling on the saddle cloth is non-existent in the copy, yet the reverse dots in the crown and garnishing are perfectly reproduced for both number and position. Compare with the attached.

Interesting. It is closely modelled on the 2E die pair, but isn't quite right. I wonder how they get it so close with some of the finer detail replicated, but then again so wrong with something that is more obvious. If the portrait was that good, they would easily have the hair detail down to a fine art.

0.5 - 0.6mm thicker than what number? Without a thickness for the flan, you can't work out the volume and by extension the density. If you can calculate the density it will be obvious whether it is gold or not. I personally wouldn't hold my breath.