Rob

That's possible, but the world is larger than just pennies. The downturn seems to be across the board. Clearly eBay has taken its toll of dealers because mint state pieces aside, everyone expects to pick up lesser pieces for 99p with free postage, which in turn must be reflected in reduced sales off websites. In terms of listing specific varieties, that is always going to be the preserve of the specialist collector, who is likely to be the only person willing to pay a large premium. Specialists have always had to do their own legwork as you can't rely on the description of either dealer or auction house when it comes to small variations. Things are esoteric for a reason - i.e. not many people are interested. Any pointers where you think this is the case? Decimals are obvious, but they tend to be the preserve of ebay bidders and facebook, not websites where few dealers carry decimals, or fairs which are similarly poorly supplied. It is quite clear the middle grade market has collapsed to some extent. The market has always had far more material than collectors to absorb it, so this is not the reason for the downturn. At the risk of repeating myself, it is clear there is little quality material to buy at the moment and this is reflected in dealers' stock. It is not worth paying inflated prices for indifferent material when there is nobody to sell it on to.

Which reflects what I was saying on the York Fair thread. All the dealers I spoke to have noticed it has been quiet for a few months, with some selling nothing off their sites for a week or more. If you contrast that with the auction results where people are prepared to buy at virtually any cost, it paints a contradictory picture. Comments would be good from people on the other side of the fence, as I am having difficulty understanding what is going on - and I'm not alone.

STEWART, B H I H (Lord Stewartby) Collection sold at Spink over 6 sales 2016-7. Tickets are usually cream card, approximately 22-24mm diameter, though others are encountered. At the sale, some coins were sold with 2x2 envelopes giving descriptions and the acquisition details on the reverse. The pencil annotation seen is a later addition. Some coins came in envelopes with a very basic description and reference number written in a different style - this was for cataloguing purposes.

BLUNT, C E In addition to those tickets illustrated in Eaglen's article, there is a considerable number of tickets as below with the coin's details on one side and the other indicating that the coin came from the Shirley-Fox bequest to Blunt in 1939. The tickets for the smaller coins are typically 24mm, but large flans may have larger tickets. Around 200 of these found their way into Lord Stewartby's collection, sold at Spink in 2016-7.

Webb, H Henry Webb Snr, the main collection sold by Sotheby in 1894 and 1895. Some coins appear to have been re-acquired by the family and kept until sold by H Webb Jnr to Baldwin sometime around WW2. Lockett bought a considerable number of pieces, the reverse of the ticket indicating that the coin was part of lot 1509 in his English part 2 sale in 1956 - this probably written by either Baldwin or the subsequent owner. The tickets are on flimsy paper and made octagonal, presumably to fit into the circular holes of a tray. They come in various sizes, reflecting the size of hole. The second ticket appears to be a very early Baldwin ticket with notes added by Webb. The coin relating to this ticket was acquired by Lockett from Baldwin having previously come from Webb and was also in the 1894 sale. As the references are to Hawkin and the sale referenced is that of Hugh Howard (d1738) sold at Sotheby 20-22 May 1874, it is reasonable to conclude that the finer hand is that of H Webb Senior.

ASHBY, J M J M Ashby's collection of English silver coins was sold at Spink in July 2000. Tickets are white card, 24mm diameter, description on one side, acquisition and provenance info on the other. The ticket below duplicates that written on the back of the Carter ticket for the same coin.

CARTER, E C Dr Ernest Christison Carter, collection acquired by Baldwin post-mortem in 1950. Tickets are usually 31-32mm, but other sizes are known. The second image shows a Carter ticket with the reverse by J M Ashby whose collection was sold at Spink in July 2000

I think there's a danger of the number of varieties being limited only by the ability to differentiate minescule differences. It could get very silly.

The average weights quoted in North from the start of Cnut to the end of Edward the Conf begin with 22 grains before dropping to 16 to 18 for much of the ensuing period to EdC expanding cross before regaining ground to 21 grains at the end of EdC (though facing bust/small X is an outlier at the lower weight). I don't think this necessarily accurately reflects and equates to the presumed prevailing standard, but the drift in weights might be a reflection of the market value of silver at the time. I presume it has always been a commodity because it has a tradable value and even when used as the standard for the coinage, must have reflected the availability of not of the metal.

It varies. For Saxon pennies, North unhelpfully states 'Probably several standards' based on the wide divergence of weights without giving an opinion. Blunt, Stewart & Lyon suggest a figure of 24 grains for Alfred's later coins, reducing gradually to 20 grains by the time of Eadgar's reform. There are regional variations in the observed weights from different areas, so maybe North's statement is as close as you can get. Later Saxon average weights also vary across large sample populations, so it is likely that either any existing standard wasn't adhered to, or the weight of pennies reflected the economics of the time. I don't have the answer. There are two pairs of figures which might be significant. Both Aethelred's LSC and Edward the Confessor's Expanding cross have light and heavy issues, the heavier of which is on average 50% higher. That seems awfully convenient and may be accounting related. Could it be related to the Mark? I'm not sure when that was introduced as an accounting tool, but the pound and mark are in the same 3:2 ratio. For Norman pennies, Hawkin (p.7) gives a figure of 22.5 grains for William I. North (p.257) gives 22 grains for William II to Henry III

It's normal. 5 pences were struck from 1968 onwards in preparation for decimalisation and stockpiled. If the detail is not clear, it will be worn and of no value over scrap

Just the engineering tolerances will produce 'varieties' within those limits. The question is, at what point are these limits exceeded, and even then, is the difference due to an out of tolerance component? These would still not be an error in my view, as wear and tear will increase the size of any gaps leading to an increasingly sloppy fit. They will stop using the die or collar once it is broken or obviously causing faulty strikes. I would suggest it is a fairly inexact science to determine at what point these could even be considered as an error. Same goes for die fill. Not in the original design, but not an error once it happens.

I don't think the shape of the blanks is an issue because the 'corners' on the edge always correspond to the same point on the design to within a midge's. These are a full milled/blank section out. It is quite possible that the position of the edge milling was intended to be a security feature and that this is an error. Or could the collar be put on upside down, as this would produce the same effect?

Journalism is nearly always a case of 'me too' reporting. There aren't enough stories of interest to go round, so one paper's scoop is often a different version another paper's scoop. The tabloids do better simply because they widen their net to include the ever vacuous and irrelevant celebrity 'news'. Also, if in doubt, make it up. Anyway, the news about the 2016 pound must be right as it was printed in a respectable 'newspaper'

The relief looks a bit high for a struck piece. It could well be a cast.

Whereabouts are you? There are a few dealers on here spread across the country, so you might find someone near you to help. You will get an honest appraisal. I will declare a vested interest here - I'm in Manchester, but obviously not necesssarily the closest. Argentum is in the North-East and there are a number down south who you could be directed to. Chris, the forum owner is also a dealer but lives in Germany, so it might be a while before he visits, but he is otherwise in the SE London/Kent area.

Mine says the opposite. Can't live like this with you, can't live like this with you......... Never seem to notice problems like this building up. I'm not the sharpest tool in the box on the emotion front, so someone else will have to accommodate this.

It has to be a mistake. I don't know what the printing technique used at that time, but if it was a case of assembling words in blocks and dropping them in, then it would be normal to pull out farthings and drop halfpennies into the vacant spots. There was only one print run.

The last digit, or the last two digits were entered by hand. As a result the date can appear wide or narrow. That was made from a 186 master, but some are only 18.

Nothing wrong that I can see, though no reverse image. Why would you think it wrong?

Difficult to say. A picture rarely conveys the same impression as something in hand. But there are clear lines on the obverse, hence the assessment.

Looking at the obverse it has been wiped

Don't shout too loud chaps. I've had it pointed out that I could have bought more than the odd kitchen in the past few years.

I'm not sure Mrs N would have appreciated being thought of as something servicing the whole of the north west of the UK.

Not as far as I am aware.