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Rob

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Everything posted by Rob

  1. Rob

    Class 1 Edward MULES!

    Another consideration would be the huge number of die sets required which would necessarily involve a number of engravers. I don't have the figures for the number of dies produced, but using back of a fag packet assumptions, a die set would do about 10,000 coins. Between April 1279 and May 1280, London struck nearly £155,000 in pennies at 244 to the £, that's a whopping 37,780,228 coins and would require 3778 die sets. All this would have to be squeezed into roughly a 350 day period given Sunday working would likely be frowned on. Again, this would be 10 die sets (1 trussle & 2 piles) or more per day, i.e 30+ dies a day. It stands to reason that a considerable number of people were employed in the sinking of dies and they would have their own quirky ways. Any large expansion in mint output or a complete recoinage would require the immediate employment of additional engravers. Where would you find them? You can't just magic up a skilled tradesman, but you can poach one from an adjoining country. The coinage of Britain is littered with names from the near continent, so employment of the odd French or Dutch engraver is quite likely, and for some of the odd letters and punches, it might be necessary to examine contemporary continental currency to find a punch link. It might also explain the use of a Lombardic N on a couple of York local dies which Denis highlighted last night. That then offers a possible explanation for some of the slight differences. Idiosyncratic die cutting is inevitable when everything is hand-made so it is possible that some of the differences could be ascribed to individuals because there is no way they would intentionally change the design 12 times in just over a year. We would be looking at new punches replacing old as they wore out. It's very difficult to get away from the concept of cut-off points between each group, but it really is a requirement.
  2. Rob

    Class 1 Edward MULES!

    Don't know. Maybe we need to completely rethink the series. It is obvious that our assumptions are not entirely correct. Personally, I think a broader approach would be more in keeping, such as the Ed.1 halfpenny 3c-e, where there is not enough distinct detail to categorically say where things stand in terms of the Fox classification. There are other considerations too. The classes are only separated by a month or two in some cases. It is pie in the sky to think there could ever be a clear dividing line in such instances. You really need a documented break in production to clearly define one class from the next and you don't have it. The new coinage started in 1279, but by the middle of 1280 they had already gone through all the class 1s and 2s and were up to 3f, so it doesn't give much time for each sub-class. A guy could leave London with dies for a northern mint and they would almost be obsolete by the time he arrived. How can we be so presumptive to narrow down the classes in the way that we do? There has to be overlap. And none of this allows for any idiosyncrasies an engraver may possess. That could b****r up the classification big time. Thinking along the lines of the Civil War engravers, each man had his own tools and engraving style. It is likely that was also the case 3 or 400 years earlier.
  3. Rob

    Coins without Denomination

    Yes, and the G&D crowns don't have it either, without exception. Just goes on physical characteristics.
  4. Rob

    Edward I Class 1c/1a London Mule

    No it's not. Just a ticket that passed through my hands. I always scan in tickets that are assigned and those that I can't attribute in the hope of one day establishing the author's name. I do have other North tickets, but that was the one in the ticket reference library.
  5. Rob

    Class 1 Edward MULES!

    Interesting question and exactly the same topic that was discussed at lst night's meeting when Denis Martin gave a talk on the 'Enigmatic Varieties of the Episcopal Edward I pennies from York and Durham struck from Local Dies". Again, the first thing I questioned was have we sub-categorized to too great an extent. when you have early and late letters on both sides and based on current classification become mules when mixed, then maybe we need to rethink our strategy. Interesting topic and good fun A big problem with a lot of these 'mules' is the sample size. When only single digit numbers are the norm, can we really be so confident in our rigid classification? I don't think so.
  6. Rob

    Coins without Denomination

    There is nothing to say that a coin has to have any denomination indicated as far as I am aware. Coins are proclaimed legal tender on the basis of their description which will be the specification laid down, but to consider a coin without the denomination in the legend or any other component that is usually present to not be valid currency would also require the mint to recall any coins with errors - which they clearly do not.
  7. Rob

    Edward I Class 1c/1a London Mule

    Any tickets with it? Sazama had envelopes, but any North coin originally came with a ticket such as the attached.
  8. Rob

    DNW catalogue December 2016

    Ask them to take one up to the Midland this weekend
  9. That one seems the odd one out. Yes, it is obvious up to a point, but given the character size I don't believe it was the only legend variety he found when trawling through them. The penny and halfpenny legends have a larger font size, which should lead to errors being more readily identified. The 8/6s were quickly spotted and added to the list, despite not needing a glass to read the date.
  10. Rob

    I'm glad I'm reading these threads

    quite ! what? Pictures would be appreciated.
  11. I often wonder how many things would have been recorded earlier if Peck and Freeman had extended their published study to include legend varieties. ESC has recorded things like RE.X for REX since the first edition in 1949, so maybe silver collectors were more attuned to looking for legend varieties than copper collectors, though I find this hard to believe. They aren't a separate species.
  12. Yes, but it is obvious to the naked eye, not just under a glass. Either people consciously avoid looking at the VICTORIA part of the legend, or .......... The serifs on the G make it obvously different to the two ends of the C being wider at the end instead of narrower. I don't believe that people are so unobservant. And they weren't all made yesterday.
  13. I am not convinced it willl be any more common than the other one die rarities. It is more obvious to the eye than some of the more esoteric overcuts which have been known for years. Look at other denominations such as the BBBITANNIAR, RRITT varieties for example. People haven't only been looking at pennies in the last couple of years. Someone paying 20K for a marginally narrower 3 in the date is far more questionable in my opinion.
  14. Rob

    Ebay's Worst Offerings

    Well, the first one has six consecutively correct words - "polymer note with the serial number" and (the last) two out of six in the following. "AM32 910640. Number 32 represents money". The second one has to be genuine as it's Jesus doing the listing and he's converted a fiver into £75000.
  15. Rob

    I'm glad I'm reading these threads

    She has a lot to learn. I haven't spoken to the missus in two decades, let alone two days
  16. I said any estimate between 5p and 5 grand was reasonable. At least you have a non-ebay reference point now.
  17. Rob

    Ebay's Worst Offerings

    But he is open to sensible offers, so a £1 each on the Saxon copies and a fiver for a fiver would comply.
  18. Rob

    Ebay's Worst Offerings

    I would like these, but think the best price should be negotiated by bartering. I will offer one Oxford English dictionary, and a copy of the English language curriculum for pre-school years The fiver bears no resemblance to Jane Austen - neither Her Maj, nor the talking fat dog to her left.
  19. I would go further. Sometimes the 5 is triple cut
  20. No problem. If you want a real challenge, try to find an 1825 with cleanly punched and completely formed characters and the legend in alignment. It's a bit harder than you might imagine.
  21. Reinforced legends seen on dies was a means of extending their life. Rubbish accumulates in the incuse parts leading to partly formed characters. Sometimes these are recut to give clear legend. It is also possible for the initial character to be sunk in the wrong place and a correction made to the position. Whatever the reason, this feature is frequently seen. Examination of the legends on first issue farthings will usually show partly formed letters implying the punches employed were not the best.
  22. In that case, polish away. You aren't destroying a unique piece of history as the supply of these is never going to be an issue. It will however be an irreversable action and once demonetised, worthless as a collectable.
  23. I would go for an example of each denomination, so that would essentially be a long proof set, together with a sovereign and half from each of the overseas mints. I would probably hope to find the 1902 pattern crown and 1908 satin proof penny, but without much conviction of ever getting the latter. The next break point in terms of an expanded list would be a date run of the above types but in current coins only because the long set would be proofs. Maundy would also be required. A low tide penny and halfpenny would be required as a distinct design change, but not the open 3 The third level would be a warts and all collection encompassing all the varieties known to mankind.
  24. For what it's worth, I used to collect shillings and halfpennies including varieties, so basically date runs on steroids. I found after a while that although individually they were high grade (EF or better) and usually appealing to look at, there was a certain monotony in the rows and rows of mint state coins which collectively didn't provide the same satisfaction. This was particularly striking in the bronze as they tend not to tone with much difference in colour, so it was either full lustre or a watered down version. Silver was better due to the greater variation in colours, but at the end of the day the only real difference was a digit or two in the date, so it was this which finally turned me off date runs.
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