Rob

UK politicians operate under the same Machiavellian principles as the Eurocrats in Brussels, but at least the problem would be 'in house' so to speak with an agenda that is certain to be more UK-centric than the EU will ever offer. We also have the useful inconvenience of elections - anathema to the EU's inner circle. Got to look after ourselves, because nobody else will do so. Charity begins at home, not in a committee with other priorities.

Second part next month is Henry II to Edward II, Hammered gold is in September, late medieval in December and Tudor and Stuart next year

Well argued. And when the system does inevitably collapse, the remedy will of course be full, Europe-wide union. Still however led by the unaccountables, but this time with full control over the inhabitants of the EU. Mission accomplished.

No, I got rid of all my Coin Monthlies - no room

What? The grand old US of E? Sorry, it's too serious an issue to make light. There is an agenda which is going to be pursued irrespective of the people of Europe until presented as a fait accompli. Just as Europe wandered blindly into WW1 by political agreements and alliances, so is it doing the same with a united states of Europe. People need to stop digging themselves into a hole they will be unable to exit.

Machiavelli wrote that the purpose of political power is to maintain itself and to extend itself. It has nothing to do with the welfare of the people. It has nothing to do with principles or ideology or right and wrong. The welfare of the people, principles, ideology, right and wrong: these are related to the means to the end, but the goal is power. Do whatever it takes to keep your power and extend your power. Which is why a vote to remain in is a vote to continue being treated as an inconvenience by the unelected and unaccountables, but nothing more. Any suggestion that we would be able to reform the EU by remaining is a delusion. Machiavelli should be required reading by all as understanding it would better equip people to make a rational decision. Any potential reduction in the power of those on top should be grasped when the opportunity arises, because they aren't going to give it up willingly. 500 years after it was written, the arguments hold true today as they ever did, whether it be prior to Magna Carta, the reform laws of 200 years ago, the control of the Vatican over large swathes of the world's population or modern day North Korea. Abrogate your responsibilities at your children's peril.

The fact that the busts are 2 guinea type and the coin size is a guinea, it means they must be made by imaging a 2 guinea piece and manufacturing the copy using CNC machines. This would explain the sharp, clean design, which of course you rarely encounter on a coin struck using a fly press due to metal flow. Little things to check if you don't want to be ripped off. Yet again, a triumph of greed over common sense on the part of the buyer. As pointed out, if genuine, it would be a 10K coin. People don't learn, and probably due to all pervasive consumer protection legislation are losing the necessary mindset to question 'bargains'. I think both sides need to sit back and consider their actions.

Somewhat more damning is the use of the 2 guinea busts on a one guinea. It's a forgery all day long.

Not rare enough to make people fight over them. I stuck one on eBay last year, not particularly desirable at VF or so. Went opening bid for a quid. My thoughts were vindicated. Subsequent examples have been left in the bulk lots and sold or scrapped accordingly. The market for most coins is thinner than you might imagine.

More must have iFaults Gotta get me one of these for the phone collection - ticks the dysfunctional product box

There is also the RM museum. They may still have the original dies to compare. It would take a while to hear back from them.

No, sorry.

No. All the early ones have gone. Just left with 1998 onwards, or maybe one 1995 issue if I can find it. Quite a few complete years and a lot of duplicates.

same as the 2011, just the daate is different

But you could afford it, just you have made a decision to collect diversity in quantity over a smaller selection of specific pieces. I haven't done the sums, but if you added up all the prices you have listed in the various acquisition threads it is clear you could afford it several times over. And if not that one, something similar.

I typically deslab 1-3 coins a year, most of which seem to cost considerably more than 499

Second edit required, Dave? Amny thnaks.

Yes, but even the oft maligned estate agents have some competitors offering a fixed fee service. Here we have a (not very cheap) service aimed at presumably the less confident collector. Put another way. Why do so many people buy LMO products? It's a case of marketing a product above its regular market value for a similar item. People think they are getting something that is a good investment and (often unwittingly) pay multiples of market value for that item. Slabbing is surely no different. Each and every one of us say the same thing - buy the coin and not the slab. It's easier to inspect an unslabbed coin, however, it's also easier to let someone give an opinion on grade while you sit back and accept this unquestioningly. TBH, people who blindly spend tens of thousands on things without due diligence are equally to blame for any value shortfall. Bet they wouldn't buy their car without seeing or sitting in it first. It boils down to greed in all probability just like any other get rich quick scheme.

The question remains though, who assigns the value? This is a conflict of interests because remuneration is tied to a value assigned by the recipient of your money. If slabbing has to be done, and I have no reason to deny them the right to offer a service, then it should be a flat fee service. The time taken to grade a £10 coin should be no more or less than that required to do a £10K coin - if the job is done properly. By all means charge higher shipping due to the insurance, but if you are paying more to have a high value coin graded it tells me that either someone is skimping somewhere or alternatively, someone is being ripped off for the time actually taken.

That should make it pretty excusive if extended to existing members - approximately 32 coins at lowest price, or just one coin valued at £25K. I presume the 2% fee is based on their own (inflated) valuation. It is certainly going to exclude the casual person slabbing. Given the find an agent link requires you to be logged in and to log in you have to be a member and to become a member you now have to pay £500, I see it all ending in tears. It isn't directed at any TPG in particular, but these membership fees are a huge premium to pay for something that is essentially a hobby. Why try to frighten people away? Or are they trying to emulate the less scrupulous vendors in asking OTT prices for something that isn't realisable. It's alright asking a premium, but people new to the hobby would expect that extra expenditure to help realise higher prices when the time comes to sell. Unless the TPGs offer a market which trades at higher prices to the real world, it's a case of fools and their money soon parted. I can see a parallel with other selling scandals.

Estimates are a difficult one. Typically an estimate should be set low as it will presumably reflect what the estimated market value is after a bit of competition. Given the current premium of 20% + VAT, an upper estimate of say 80% should in theory be somewhere about reference book prices, with lower estimate below that and a reflection of the reserve if applied. However, all this goes out the window when two people want the same thing.

Yes, I have never understood the rationale for paying someone unknown to give an opinion which is no more valid than my own......... I'll give my opinion for free.

£100 not wasted on membership will probably land me a fairly hard to find medieval episcopal penny. They aren't that expensive, primarily because they rarely turn up in a desirable grade.

As I see it, you can be relieved of £99 for the privilege of CGS membership, or the £s equivalent of £102 for PCGS membership, both of which profess to offer an opinion that I am incapable of making myself. Either way I'm about £100 lighter in the pocket. Vive la difference.

Only two to possibly interest me initially - the no legend reverse Moore and the unadopted 1797 designs pattern, but the latter is too spotty and the former has a spot of verd too on the reverse behind Britannia.