Rob

It's a pity Steve didn't list the provenances of every coin. Saves having to go back through the sales to find them and at least gives you a starting point to push them back further in time.

If the flan is even slightly smaller, some, all or none of a particular feature can be struck up. It's a complete lottery as to what is seen.

There would be no problem using the wrong date as the issues of cartwheels would testify. These were struck after 1797 but the date didn't change.

It's just the ongoing obsession with the British public about 50ps and how rare they must be. I get called once or twice a day asking how much I would pay for various 50ps. The reply of 50p is usually met with derision because people are asking a couple hundred quid on eBay for them. When you explain that eBay is the only place you are likely to find someone stupid enough to pay that, they don't believe you. There's a real fixation in the minds of the public that the commemorative 50ps are worth a fair amount, or at least considerably more than 50p. Makes you wonder why the RM release any onto the market given they are always worth more than face - not.

The problem being of course that unless someone does actually leave, the alternative is nothing will happen. Even a majority of one in the referendum for staying in will be portrayed as a resounding endorsement of the status quo and a vindication of the current setup.

I think it is also worth pointing out that the EU inspired legislation on the books will only be selectively removed should we leave and even then only gradually over time, because to remove it all at a stroke would leave a vacuum resulting in anarchy. We will keep the bits that suit us and ditch the rest, so the fear campaign's message of impending doom doesn't really hold water. People aren't going to be made slaves as a result of the EU not determining our legislation, nor are we suddenly going to become a heartless nation. The vast majority from all political persuasions have always and are always likely to have a social conscience. As for the last point made by Richard 'When it comes down to it I think it all boils down to how you feel about the power balance within Europe and whether you're more a nationalist (small n) or federalist I guess.' For the first time in over 40 years, people are being asked if they want to take a nationalist or federalist stance. If the EU decided to have a referendum, the question would only ever be do you want to be more federalist. And if the answer received wasn't 'Yes', the question would be asked again and again until it was obtained. If this country voted 'Out', the door would always be open to future governments to rejoin should it be in our interests, albeit most likely on stricter binding terms, because the desire for centralised power would over-ride the current rhetoric. It's their ball to take away or allow you to play with at their whim. The fundamental question remains. Do we wish to remain subservient to an unelected and unaccountable group of 28 autocrats and the polycracy that is the EU leadership? Sorry, but that really is a rhetorical question for me.

I still feel that the lack of factual reasons given by the In group hits the nail on the head. The main reason for staying in appears to be fear of the unknown (plus a few of the more vociferous supporters worry they will be thrown off the gravy train). If the outcome of this referendum is that we stay in Europe, it will be a damning endictment of the indifferent attitude people have to democracy. I also wonder what the attitude will be of the EU to this country going forward. I suspect a tightening of central control will happen to dissuade anyone else from having independent thought. Considering the Lib Dems have spent decades voicing their support for all things European, I'm surprised there haven't been any statements of support for the In campaign. As the most solidly pro-European political group in this country you would have expected them to say something. Irrespective of how far down in the polls they are, the party machine is still operative. Or maybe they are unwilling/unable to explain their unswerving subservience to a foreign institution over which they have no control.

Even the Germans are on the side of those wanting out. My wife thinks we should leave.

No. Those are usually struck to proof standard, or at least close to. I was thinking in terms of something to alleviate a shortage of circulating coin, possibly in the early 1810s when there was an explosion of tokens resulting from a shortage of currency. Timing would be convenient re Kuchler's death and using old dies would not be unusual as the date was not important.

The K by the shield is the signature for that die, just as the K on the truncation was his signature for his obverse die. Going off on a tangent, I wonder if the incuse dot dies were made after 1806. I have always assumed the late Victorian coppers didn't have ww on the truncation because supplies of Wyon (d.1851) engraved dies had run out, or at least the master punch was defunct, leading to some refurbishment by persons unknown. If there is any evidence for striking farthings post 1807 using old dies made good, or new dies made inconjuction with a foreign order, then it would be appropriate to omit the K because he didn't do them. CHK died in 1810, so this is a possibility, in which case one candidate would be Philp, who was at Soho at the time working on the Bank Tokens. Discuss.

Yep, that's the dot. No sign of a K, so P1398 it appears to be.

This is at the heart of the problem. The EU in its various forms has been in existence for 60 years, but any strengthening of the institution has never been accompanied by any accountability to the people it dictates to. At no point has there been a call for political unity, but that hasn't stopped them quietly increasing their power over national legislation to make the unaccountables the de-facto political rulers. They actually sit well alongside the various central committees in those paragons of democracy such as China or North Korea - a centrally managed political and economic system, with a toothless parliament put in place to rubber stamp official policy. Sorry, but I see little difference in the two scenarios when it comes to legislation and accountability. This referendum has been a large wake-up call for those at the centre of Europe because big Dave did the unthinkable - he decided to ask the voters what they think. As a consequence, Europe is now in uncharted waters because the status quo was always to act without reference to voters. Europe will change following the referendum irrespective of the outcome, but the underwear soiling problem for the eurocrats is that the outcome of the referendum is not in their control. This means the normal procedure of having a second referendum in the event of an inappropriate outcome is not an option and, worryingly for them, people might now demand a voice across the continent. They will have difficulty putting the genie back in the bottle. They don't currently have an outline plan for central accountability because nobody wants the gravy train to arrive at the destination, and then they wonder why anti-EU sentiment is running so strongly. The point that is frequently missed is that this issue is not for most people a case of spouting nationalistic rhetoric. It isn't about immigration, though most would like to see at least some measure of control at our borders. It isn't because half the citizens of this country hate foreigners - they don't. What they do hate is power associated with a lack of accountability. Parallels with fat cats anyone? Anyway, too much scaremongering going on as to the consequences of us leaving. Frankly, the west is in the mire unless it gets its act together. That is easier to do at a national level for all countries rather than the one size fits all EU.

Difficult to argue with that. A bit of friction, but not a huge amount, and even that depends on the lighting angle.

That's because the majority of people in favour of leaving are older. Coinies tend to be older. Unfortunately you cannot put the collective experience of the past 40 years into a twenty year old. It is too big an opportunity to turn down, as there is unlikely to be another in the next 50 years - unless natural selection comes into play, in which case the EU will die of natural causes. Smile - shit can, and could, happen

Eeee. That'll pay for a few years' supply of punctuation repair kits.

I liberated this from the base of a broken Georgian drinking vessel about 10 years ago. Hermetically sealed for over 250 years. It's in the unlisted varieties thread for the T/E in AT

So what? That is why it is difficult to claim that someone is being ripped off. Caveat emptor. People might try it on, but absolutely nobody is compelled to buy at any price, not even below fair value.

Short and to the point.

Maybe if we leave and prices increase as a result of a worsening exchange rate it will curb the ridiculous levels of consumer spending. People seem to buy everything and anything only to discard it the following month. Clothes can be washed for example and aren't single use items. The obsession with having the latest fashion/gadget/colour is probably the largest contributor to our balance of payments deficit. Money is too easily come by - apparently. And if you can afford to pay your debts you can just walk away from them because the previous government decreed it is demeaning to be declared bankrupt - total crap.

With a 20% weight range and 10% diameter variation listed in Krause, it may well not be an issue. Also, Krause is littered with mistakes, notwithstanding the fact that what they compiled was a fairly monumental task, so could easily be wrong. Somewhere on the web will be a forum dedicated to Nepalese 5 paisa pieces, sad gits that we are.

The reverse has attempted to replicate the Order of the Garter. As in the image attached

It was a coin, but now is a piece of art. Someone has removed the reverse and engraved the design seen. It started out in life as either a penny, halfpenny or farthing. Approx. diameters would be 30, 25 or 20mm respectively

Coin News. £1 each, 12 for £10. Probably find some more when sorted. Coin News list May 2016.docx