Rob

That's a standard reply from the saleroom when you sign up.

'for issue' is not hyperbole, rather hyperbol*ocks I've never had a problem with best knowns being only fair or whatever, but the marketing machine insists on the use of for issue. This is best described as polishing a turd - something well within the competence of the typical marketing department, though to a large extent this problem is a case of the market satisfying demand. Until collectors have a realistic handle on the limited numbers of uncirculated pieces and the relative lack of abundance of high grade coins in general, the market will call them what the customer demands. Uncirculated coins make up a tiny fraction of one per cent of the total number of coins available, so the sooner collectors take this on board the better. It would also improve the market for not quite there pieces if grading standards were consistently applied.

Why are people taken in by such offerings. Nobody would sell a piece of silver with a price measured in tens of thousands starting at £850. People that have these things know what they are and have a good idea about the market price. If you don't have a clue what it is you would start it at 99p. More to the point, you would sell it through a reputable auction company, not ebay. Ebay wouldn't do due diligence and conveniently absolve themselves of any responsibility. This inaction commanding a fee of nearly 15%. Quite frankly, if anyone gets taken in by such nonsense then they have only themselves to blame. Even an outlay of £850 isn't something you do just because someone starts at that price. There is only so much you can do to protect the gullible.

Criteria depend on which hat I'm wearing. For the collection, firstly does it tick a box? Second depends on the eye appeal and if a well documented series, does the example in question feature high on the list in terms of quality in comparison to other available pieces? Or if not previously known to me, is it comparable? I like to make purchases with a view to never requiring an upgrade. For the business there is only one criteria - do I think I can make money on it?

Who's a lucky boy then. Peck 2092A. Rare, though a couple on this forum have one. e.g. http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/8822-model-pennies/?hl=penney#entry104511 A bit of filler info. Made by Joseph Moore, a Birmingham die sinker in the mid-1800s to be considered as a proposed alternative to the existing heavy copper coinage. It was popular with people, but not adopted, so that the Royal Mint had to publicly disown them.

With the exception of a handful of people, we all suffer the same dilemma

Ok as far as wear and damage goes, but clearly dipped as alluded to.

Nope, I make them too........................3 yesterday according to the missus

The popular but relatively expensive coins have a much higher price proportionally for low grade coins relative to those in higher grades. Therefore it makes sense to spend a little bit more as this may well equate to a fairly small percentage increase over the base cost for a low grade piece. A price range of less than an order of magnitude for say the Gothic Crown between Fine and Unc is dwarfed by that for a 1904 penny where the difference is between pence and £100. Everyone has to start somewhere. Get a copy of Derek's book on grades and absorb it. Buy a loupe and get a range of cheaper 20th century coins and compare them. Try to grade them before you buy and then bite the bullet with a few purchases to see if you were right. The members of this forum can't teach you to grade as this only comes with experience and you need to see a full range of grades under magnification to appreciate the minute differences between UNC and gEF or EF which can mean several multiples in terms of price. You'll get things wrong, but are only going to gain competence by making mistakes and being self-critical. Buy the odd cleaned coin if only to see what they look like. If you are intent on having a coin graded, then a cleaned one will fail, though the cost of submission will still be charged. Never forget that a TPG grade is still a subjective opinion and nothing more, despite their claims to the contrary. See the many discussions in other threads regarding this. Going for things that tend to be popular is not a sure-fire way to see something appreciate. Their popularity ensures that prices will be high when you buy them, but it doesn't follow that the price will automatically increase. Every dog has its day, and so things that are currently unpopular may well be tomorrow's star performers. If it is absolutely top-notch then it doesn't really matter what the denomination is - it should always be relatively easy to sell. A good example of something bucking the trend of expectations is the last coin on your list. The 1951 penny was priced at £8 VF and £14 EF in the 1970 Seaby Standard Catalogue (an earlier version of today's Spink) which would suggest a price of around the £30 mark in UNC. Today the same values are £12 and £35 with Unc given as £60, though you could probably pick up one for £40-50 or lower on eBay if you are lucky. i.e the price has remained roughly constant for the past 40 years. The price of a postage stamp in the meantime has gone from 3p to 63p. Nothing is certain in terms of future pricing.

Yeah, this "finest known" caper is actually just the finest known to CGS, not necessarily the finest known in actuality. I actually have one or two coins which are superior to their "finest known". In truth, CGS are misrepresenting the true facts by not adding a rider to their claim, making it clear that it's just their population they are referring to. They (TPGs) all do that, because as we all know, the only business with the superior knowledge is their own. I also have some finest knowns, having no problem identifying which of the three or four examples in my possession is the best one. Acknowledging the presence of other potentially better examples isn't a good selling point. Statistics, damn lies and statistics.

I would recommend you get up to speed on grading before buying and save yourself a couple grand. Even buying a load of coins and a grading book for a grand would still save you a second

So all the penny people have done their homework and decided it isn't worth bidding on. It is no different to seeing an optimistically priced piece of tat on ebay and disregarding that too. Maybe someone wants an example. Paying £24 over the odds is not excessive if it gets you what you want. I've certainly paid 10x that amount over the odds to get a coin I badly wanted, and fully accept the consequences of potentially not making a profit when sold. I have also paid under the odds, similarly without any guarantee of getting my money back. Is it bad for the hobby? I doubt it, because the completely uneducated (numismatically speaking) person who wants to pick up 99p pennies is probably sourcing them from eBay and very unlikely to be buying at a regular auction. It should also be borne in mind that they are quite likely paying over the odds on eBay too.

If your name is R Andrew Scott and you live in Henley, then presumably we already have the answer. Linkedin also has an M Andrew Scott, educated at Henley Management College, graduated in 2010, so unlikely.

Probably find that ebay couldn't cope with dogging being the caravan section as opposed to the pets category.

Wonderful

Prices in Spink are a reasonable guide for these. Forget things like Coin Yearbook and similar as it gives two prices for a James I shilling - one for Fine and one for VF, that despite there being 6 issues and nearly 20 marks used, not to mention overmarks. Both look to be decent examples. The James 6th bust tends to look quite good in any grade if fully struck up and not flat in parts.

They could be anybody. The best lead would be to google any name that is clear. e.g. there are pennies advertising Pear's Soap, which is an obvious one. Does one say HURGON & LONDON? Are the other two hallmarks, or jeweller identifying marks? That would give you a start, but there are so many privately countermarked pieces, not all of which have a meaning, that makes identifying the marks a bit problematic.

Another interesting observation is that the 5 coins listed above - Speedbird's, Mine, Michael's, Joe's and the LCA coin are all from different reverse dies. That's a lot of dies with the error. Probably more than you would expect given the stop is obviously supposed to be there, even allowing for the appalling quality control at the time.

With a little smelting it might be possible to restore it by - converting to a bronze ingot, which could then be rolled, annealed, cut to make a blank and the detail repunched using the RM's dies from the museum. There is an easier way..................

No, I wouldn't think so. The reverse stops seem to be reasonably consistent in their position, unlike the obverse stops. This is probably due to there always being sufficient space after the final A to position it level at approximately halfway up the letters. There is some slight lateral variation, but nothing excessive. The obverses on the other hand are very busy with a lot of letters to cram into the available space. As a consequence you see wildly displaced stops after both GVLIELMVS & TERTIVS in an attempt to fit the stop in the remaining space. The OP is a good example of this. You also see an unambiguous no stop after TERTIVS because the S is touching the truncation, or even missing letters in the case of the TERTIV obverse die.

I'm not convinced there isn't a trace of a stop below the final A at a distance the width of the final A viewed as a crossbar, half way along the A horizontally. It looks like a circular mark there rather than a ragged flaw/corrosion spot.

Didn't have one, nor had I seen one before Nicholson. I actually bought it out of London Coins sale 122 in 2008, lot 2237 part Seriously Rob if I saw it tomorrow for sale I would buy it green spots or not as I do not have one either. Er. are we still discussing my coin? I,am getting a bit lost, cannot see much in the way of verdigris on my coin just a bit of gunge. No. It looks like things have drifted a little, as is often the case. Yours looks like one of 3 to date. Sorry Rob. I am obviously having an extreme senior moment, what do you mean by one of three to date? Yours, mine and Michael-Roo's (see image higher up this thread)

Didn't have one, nor had I seen one before Nicholson. I actually bought it out of London Coins sale 122 in 2008, lot 2237 part Seriously Rob if I saw it tomorrow for sale I would buy it green spots or not as I do not have one either. Er. are we still discussing my coin? I,am getting a bit lost, cannot see much in the way of verdigris on my coin just a bit of gunge. No. It looks like things have drifted a little, as is often the case. Yours looks like one of 3 to date.

Didn't have one, nor had I seen one before Nicholson. I actually bought it out of London Coins sale 122 in 2008, lot 2237 part

That's mine