Rob

It might imply there will be some VIPs for interested parties. Is there going to be any big celebration in Belgium?

An awful lot of silver gets dipped and the earlier the coin the more it tones and the more likely it is to get dipped. A vicious circle. Personally I think cleaning or dipping to excess should be made a hanging offence. If people don't like toning, then walk away and leave the coins to someone who will appreciate the aesthetics. The toning will obviously reflect the surroundings and general environment. 1787 shilling below.

Colin got it from Peter Viola, who in turn got it from Spink. It was listed in the Circular in 1992 and was previously in Spink sale 16 lot 824. The vendor in 1981 probably got it from Baldwins as it doesn't appear to have surfaced in an auction prior to that.

Oui.

It's a pair struck on a Charles II halfpenny. It's the piece in footnote 2 on p.155 of Peck.

Not sure about that. Show me a 1689 in EF and I reckon I'll faint with a rush of blood to the head. Not EF, but you do get 2 for the price of 1.

As the title says. Please email any images you have of it - irrespective of how clear. Thanks.

It's coin that usually it isn't worth illustrating in hi-res. It would have to be a really good one (like top row 1 & 4) to pay much over a couple hundred. It is also competing with the cross patonce and T marks plus mules.

Wide colon and OT but it looks cleaned. Maybe partially retoned, but it is too reflective in the fields as well as on the relief detail to be original colour. The top of the rim also looks similarly bright.

No, that would be the stem of a pomegranate. If you look at the first issue mark, the second issue mark minus the 'C' bit is not wildly different. As a new mark made with a new punch it would never be identical to the previous pomegranante. The bottom two images are the obverse and reverse of the same coin. One has a base, the other not, so given the otherwise general agreement of the shapes, one is clearly a later stage of the other.

A lot of hammered coins have quite sharp letters which are certainly not flat on top. The first mark is virtually as struck with no. 4 not far behind.

I'll have to look for one in a catalogue. I don't have a 1st coinage pomegranate marked coin. This is one of only two examples in the DNW archive. The other is Fair (6/9/1995 lot 286)

We aren't talking about a letter punch, but the initial mark which will be a separate punch. What I'm suggesting in the previous post is that the mark punch has a high relief C cut on top with the basic pomegranate in lower relief. I think Stuart is right in saying that the position of the C is too consistent to be a separate mark, which means that it has to be a single punch. It always wears down to the same basic C shape.

I'm not convinced about a reworked punch because the obviously higher relief of the C would not be possible to add to the punch, so it would have to be a new one. The 1st coinage pomegranate mark has a foot as per the bottom left, so to be missing as per the others it would have to be damaged. A C superimposed on a pomegranate would make sense in terms of the mint (Canterbury) and as the mark leading up to the end of the 1st coinage was a pomegranate, I considered the subtle change in design a possibility to reflect the start of the second coinage. The shape of the C is consistent across all 8 marks with the slight undulation on the bottom bar, the inner angles and its position relative to the stalk. Images 1 & 4 have a small dot which would tie in with a degraded foot if you compare with the bottom left. That has a definite blob on the left side in the right place. I could do with a high grade example of a mark with a foot, but that's all I have.

Seeing as nobody has contributed a single picture, here is a montage of uncertain marks. The earliest would appear to be the bottom left where there is a clear pomegranate with a bottom line. The bottom right looks as if the majority of the bottom line has broken off the punch. The high relief of the angular C is seen clearly on top row nos.1, 4 & 6. The profile of the bottom arm of the C suggests the punch probably degraded quite rapidly, where there is a consistent lump and indent irrespective of the presence of the bottom line. They are very common as a halfgroat, so it is inconceivable that nobody else has one. Anyone has one with a clear image to support or refute the above, please could they send it to me - thanks.

I don't think it is specific to this country, rather I think part of the problem is there are too many trying to make a living from eBay. It's no longer the preserve of casual sellers because people now realise that you don't get anywhere near book value in all bar a few cases. They also take the book as gospel. They also think they can grade. In many cases they also have the 'rare' variety, and if they don't will soon find something that makes it one. There is potentially so much at stake relative to salary which is why they feel defensive. As always, from politician to salesman, it is inevitably a case of style over substance. Most people don't get very successful or make themselves popular by giving an honest opinion. I have been there before.

Not necessarily. The post that started this thread was one Richard deleted this morning. As it was a post that I made verbatim, it was clearly a spam related issue, but got deleted just as I was going to report it. If they have links it is easy to see, but no link spammers are a bit more problematic. One of the regular features of the spammers with links seems to be that there is a capital letter at the beginning and again in the middle of the id, which is in itself about 8 or 9 letters long.

Shipping isn't free to the UK though. The $12 cost seems a strange amount to me. why is it not at least a grand?

Yep. Another example of multiple bidders with line of sight connection between the earholes.

And the second is Weight 8.56g. 2.4mm thick, 25.4 – 25.5mm diameter. Edge partially grained with even diagonals of insufficient depth. Die axis is 90o acw (270o) from correct position for en-coin. Seller on Alibaba, Sir Liu

Two lumps of sh*** landed on the doorstep today. I'm going to send them off to Stuart as he requested. If anyone else wants to have a look at them afterwards, they can do the rounds as long as the last person sends them back to go in the dodgy reference cabinet here. Broad indicators are the die axis is a joke, the weights are way over and one of them is thick enough to be a piedfort. Add in the obvious casting and I find it difficult to believe that anyone could be taken in by them. I suspect there are more varieties of copies out there. Any way, for future reference. Weight 7.82g. 1.9mm thick, 25.7mm diameter. Plain edge. Die axis rotated 20-25o acw (335-340o) from the correct position for en-coin. Seller on Alibaba - coins store

Seller probably doesn't know it's a copy given they are selling for charity. Drop her a line.

There's a lot better out there without double striking smacking you in the face

Nah, it's not gonna happen. Worst thing you could do. Go and enjoy your birthday and have a good one.

I like the line stating you should avoid 1866 and 1871 halfcrowns, as these are forgeries. OK, thanks for the info..