Rob

20 pieces is relatively common. I think you need to get away from the 'isn't available today' approach. Most coins where there are only a few known don't get on the radar of the average collector who is usually concentrating on the more mundane varieties. Price is a factor here because many would steer clear of something which is going to cost them multiples of the common type. In these instances it is a case of waiting patiently for what goes around to come around. Anything with 20 pieces will probably come around once a year to a year and a half on average. With say 4 or 5 pieces they might come around every 6 to 8 years. I would call that extremely rare but not excessively so which I would take to imply virtually unobtainable. Availability in the case of seriously rare pieces is effectively determined by the average time taken to form a collection, as once it is complete the pieces come on the market again if sold. Obviously it can't apply if the collection is set aside for generations or passes to the next generation as an ongoing concern, but most collections are not like this. Most serious collectors don't really go for decent collections including major rarities until they are middle aged with a bit of money in the bank, so a generation is probably the time limit for most people to collect. That is the basic criteria I used in arriving at the above figures. In the case of the coin above, it was available in the market to buy in 1919, 1956, 1979, 1995 and 2011, so available every 20-25 years on average, or one generation. Then it only depends on the depth of your pockets.

I would suggest a case where there is one available to collectors or possibly 2 only. There is an example of this in the BM but I don't know what it's like. Oxford 1644 groat (Morrieson F-2) with the Rawlins signed bust and first issue style line declaration reverse as opposed to the later cartouche. Not in Brooker, not in Morrieson who referred only to the BM's piece in his 1922 BNJ article, not in the most comprehensive Charles I collection I know (and that has more varieties than Brooker's silver) and not in Montagu either who would certainly not have passed up the chance to get one. Worth noting that despite being double struck and only around the VF mark, it was illustrated in Hamilton-Smith's 1919 sale which would not be normal for a commoner piece, or even some rarities.

Oops. Sorry, misprunt. My brain was following the title which says 1662-1972.

There's always going to be a few anomalies, but the basic principle is sound. Tongue in cheek, maybe Seaby had a load of 1923 halfcrowns to shift.

I can see the rationale for a logical numerical progression of absolute numbers, but a scale such as this merely tells you how many are out there, not the numbers typically available which defines rarity for the collector. 1000 collectors and 500 pieces known is extremely rare in terms of availability because most will be held in collections and so unavailable to others. 500 collectors of a piece where 1000 are available will always be for sale in a tray somewhere. There was a book written by Cope and Rayner in 1972 called English Milled Coinage where an estimate of the rarity for milled coins in a given grade was made. This is far more useful than a number representing the pieces available which can not anticipate supply vs. demand and hence to a certain extent, price.

The reverse is a bit better in the centre, but it is weak at the periphery. There is a lot of fine detail missing from smoothing. Here's another one.

Fine Spink 2791

You want a proper touchpiece, not the milled ones. A bit of 'ammered gold with an 'ole

Rob, That was a nice coin, looked even better in the hand. I was hoping to get away with a sneaky cheap bid on that one, but is was sought after. Picked up several bits and underpaid with all of them. Regards Mark I was the underbidder

Sharp E1/1 im. Bell.

No I would have bid on line. The only other thing I was remotely interested in was the 3a1 halfcrown. mm. bell which appeared to be over a portcullis. Presumably this was a residue of the previous incarnation of the die as a type 2 halfcrown as there is no portcullis 3a1 to my knowledge. An interesting oddity, but not a must have coin.

I was contemplating that one too, but in the end decided not to bother as I only need a basic type. And this and the next lot were a bit too bright for my liking with no toning. I like my toning.

I have angels both pierced and intact but sadly, none for sale at the moment.

Get yourself one. They are still affordable. Get a holed one used as a touchpiece and the price drops by a half or more. I like them.

Banking as a whole would benefit from transparent pricing. If people paid for the services they used instead of having the cross subsidies as now which offers free banking at random, the systemic risk should be easier to manage with fewer exceptionals on the horizon. There would be less scope for profit and therefore bonuses (which will satisfy the left), and no need to employ unnecessary staff on account of automation (which will satisfy the city). Profits would be dictated by the efficiency of the system used in relation to a capped charge.

At the risk of opening a very large can of worms, here we go again on the variabilities of slabbing the same coin on different occasions. Many coins, maybe even a majority would come back a different grade following resubmission. I have had several coins that were graded differently. Someone posted a line of 5 resubmissions of the same coin which came back 67-69. Just accept and move on. Considering the coin alone and paying little or no attention to the number will stand you in good stead.

It will come as a surprise to our Peck that I too respected his views and his resolve. There aren't many you can say that about.

You might struggle giving them away, because the recipient would have to find a use for them. Not easy given selling them on eBay would be counter-productive for the hobby..

If I was a cynic, I would say the die setter at Llantrisant has a knowledge of mules and is throwing out the odd pairs for a laugh. Too many errors have crept in of late. I would say the die se...... If they would stop producing this crap, they wouldn't make so many mistakes.

Ended, relisted and now ended again on the grounds there was an error in the listing........... like it was dodgy?

No. £2000-2500 for a brockage. Bun penny brockages are not that rare. I agree with a figure in the upper hundreds, but not thousands.

That's a silly price.

I thought about the Alfred too. The estimates are a joke as is the norm nowadays. £1200-1500 for a coin about EF against Spink book at £2750 in VF. There isn't much in this sale for me.

If it's a half guinea it ought to weigh closer to 3g. That suggests it isn't gold.

Don't know because eBay is a total lottery. Is the bull head D/T in DEI? You should check it out.