Rob

And banknotes by prefix numbers etc.

That's the trouble when you want/spot the best I guess! You've just got to be there on the day when your competitor is sat on the hard-shoulder of the M4 waiting for the AA, then it's party time. The 1561 sixpence I wanted would have sold at it's opening bid of £140 if the other guy was otherwise indisposed! The one I was most interested in was the Henry VIII half crown with the rose/lis over rose marks. That coin isn't the best available, but having done all the spadework I was willing to buy it up to the hammer price. The problem with the lis over rose mark is that it doesn't occur on the groats, so you are stuck with either a crown of the double rose (which I also need for the HA and HI marked coins), the corresponding halfcrown or the Worcester groat. The last named will cost 2 or 3 times that of a Henry VIII gold piece and have all the aesthetic qualities of a lump of roadkill. I don't particularly want to play 'Guess what it is'.

I also thought it possible that the coin had been mounted or held by a clasp at some point. Look at the flattened beading above the bust and the horizontal mark on the cross end at 6 o'clock.

I had a frustrating day. Four things went to my max in the room before the internet bids were entertained and two went way beyond. 0 from 6 is not good.

Just a box-standard, most common of all the Elizabeth sixpences (lot 396)! Also, I can't stop returning to look at the threepence (399), still haven't decided about that one, even now! The sixpence isn't really a better grade, it's just a little more 'balanced,' I'm just not certain about that obverse tone, so I'm trusting in poor white balance on this occasion. You will doubtless be pleased to know that although it was on my initial provisional list, it has now been discarded. Hah, yes, definitely so...not sure I want a handbag duel with you, just yet, you have to let me grow big and strong first! Thanks for the consideration, though, Rob! All went smoothly, I managed to get 3 bids away successfully on lot 396, I just didn't want to go to the next increment which, with fees & post, would've had me at £335 - the very top end for a regular sixpence, as far as my pocket (and understanding) is concerned at least! AND lot 399, are you sure you discarded it? Off the scale again for me, I never even started! Great tool, though, will be using it again! With the good images you've got half a chance! Thanks for all the tips, Viva la Saleroom! Flat quarter in the shield. It isn't impossible to get a decent eglantine anyway as the mark is hardly rare. Need to concentrate on getting the eglantine over marks first, then I can see what denominations I don't have with the mark and elsewhere and concentrate on these.

Just a box-standard, most common of all the Elizabeth sixpences (lot 396)! Also, I can't stop returning to look at the threepence (399), still haven't decided about that one, even now! The sixpence isn't really a better grade, it's just a little more 'balanced,' I'm just not certain about that obverse tone, so I'm trusting in poor white balance on this occasion. You will doubtless be pleased to know that although it was on my initial provisional list, it has now been discarded.

I don't know if you ever watch Bargain Hunt on BBC? Some of those auctions feature internet bidders. They are treated just like floor bidders, except as has been noted, competing floor bidders will get the main auctioneer attention (but think about it - if you were there in person and two people were slugging it out, you would wait until EITHER they passed your maximum OR one dropped out, at which point you would jump in; so with the internet). As for not getting noticed, if only one bidder is left on the floor, the auctioneer will always glance towards the phones/computers before hammering - he will want to be sure there are no more competing bids. The only problem would be if you suffered an internet dropout, or there was a server delay; but there's nothing you can do about those situations anyway. So don't worry! As happened at Spink last week. Spink Live was dead. I wrote the day off and did something else. Pity though because there were a couple of nice guineas in the sale.

Special delivery plus a little bit for packaging. £10 in the odd hundred or thousand or two won't break the bank.

Thanks, Dave, I'm actually feeling nervous! Can't say I ever experienced major nerves on the floor before! I think on this occasion the Live Bidding is free, but StJames 20% "PLUS" VAT is a little strong! Guess I'll just have to factor it in! Spink, DNW, St. James's, Baldwins are all charging this. Just add a quarter to your maximum bid.

It will all work fine.

The answer depends on whether I want the same lot(s) as you do. It is straightforward. You register, then as each lot opens there is a bid button at the level set by the auctioneer. Obviously the room bids are spotted quicker than the internet because once the lot is open, you have to respond and then the person manning the internet bids has to register your bid and convey it to the auctioneer. The lag is less than a second, but in that time someone in the room has probably already put their hand up. It tells you if you are the high bidder, so you can't bid against yourself. If you are outbid, you have the chance to return with a higher bid. You can't enter an oddball arbitrary number in the same way as you can with a book bid, so you have to bid on what the auctioneer is asking for. Thanks, Rob! So NO entering of numbers at all, just single clicks of a button if you are happy to continue with the bidding? Also, do you click on the opening bid straight away to let them know you're out there and interested? And then, if two others are throwing their handbags at each other on the floor, will the bid come back to me for a chance to bid? Or do I just have to keep clicking every time the screen is asking for it? You can try clicking, but it won't make any difference. Just as with a conventional auction, the auctioneer will stay with two competing bidders until one drops out. If you get in first, then your bid will be taken, but I suspect human nature takes over at some point because it is more natural to flick between two floor bidders than it is an anonymous screen with its inherent delays.

The answer depends on whether I want the same lot(s) as you do. It is straightforward. You register, then as each lot opens there is a bid button at the level set by the auctioneer. Obviously the room bids are spotted quicker than the internet because once the lot is open, you have to respond and then the person manning the internet bids has to register your bid and convey it to the auctioneer. The lag is less than a second, but in that time someone in the room has probably already put their hand up. It tells you if you are the high bidder, so you can't bid against yourself. If you are outbid, you have the chance to return with a higher bid. You can't enter an oddball arbitrary number in the same way as you can with a book bid, so you have to bid on what the auctioneer is asking for.

eBay grading for eBay buyers. The sad truth is that there are a lot of suckers out there, and as bad as you might feel about it, there is nothing you can do. It just means that the educated take note and move on, leaving an ever increasing proportion of sales of this nature to those who don't know any better - which leads to more listings of the same.........

It would make sense to collect the scarcer dates/types at the moment and wait for the bullion price to recede before picking up the common ones. They are never going to be in short supply unless there is a government inspired and legally backed impounding and melting of private gold. Prices being what they are at the moment you are only paying a few times bullion for what are quite scarce coins in some instances. A mintage of a couple tens of thousands only costs 3 or 4 times that of one which has a mintage of millions. It isn't until you get to the quantities available of the 1920S and 1819 that collector demand way outstrips supply. Even the Ansell sovereigns are not rare in low grade, though go for silly prices.

Although we didn't go decimal until 1971, the new coins were produced from 1968 onwards. It is unlikely there is anything special about the coin.

Not me. I was bidding online, so when it got to 130 I didn't hit the button.

nah wasnt even close, 2k plus vat? and my dealer reconned it wasnt worth the estimate Hammer price was £1700, so with commission and VAT would be £2.1k - out of my league. It's ok to splash out way above normal levels once in a while for a particularly difficult coin as long as you don't make a habit of it when you know you can get that piece quite easily. If you really want something, you usually have to pursue it - hard, and stick with your decision.

LOL me too. I think the majority of us here fall into the 'middle' category, and are the ones who apparently need to worry most, unless we love our coins so much that loss of value is of no concern. Well I picked up the lot I was after. 1919 Maundy set £130+juice. Would have likely cost me about £180-210 on ebay. I thought that might have been you. My max was....£130

One who collects common coins in fine or worse, who runs away when confronted with a price greater than that of a cup of coffee or a pint and who wants to pay less than melt for silver that is better off being scrapped. The only exceptions to this rule would be those engaged in a die study, where the cost of acquiring sufficient examples would be prohibitive.

As has been noted elsewhere, DNW had quite a few passed lots in the middle bracket. I think it is the age old story of quality mattering more than anything else, with the washer collectors only spending pennies and not really affected by any economic downturn (or upturn for that matter).

If the sovereigns are barometric coins, the 1920S just sold at Baldwins for £650K hammer!!. No, it wasn't me.

Gold being at close to all time highs may not be the best time to start collecting sovereigns, but weighed against that is the fact that with some of the earlier dates now priced about bullion value, you should pick up coins in top grades for little over melt value. Some will always be high relative to the bullion price. Buying sovereigns from the Royal Mint is never a good idea as they are invariably priced way over melt, but are produced in such numbers that you would only be able to sell for bullion. Coins on the whole do not make good gifts because a collector will have specific tastes which do not usually agree with those of the donor. The problem is usually compounded by the giver thinking they are giving a nice present from the likes of London Mint who sell overpriced tat. Do not buy from sellers like this to avoid the inevitable disappointment when you try to sell, and can't. If such purchases are genuine coins they will be overpriced and overgraded, if they are gold plated pennies for example, they are not collectable to the typical coin collector.

I think 2. is a problem area, the way you've presented it. In terms of the consequences (i.e. whether mistake or not) then it ranks only below #4, in other words it could have a catastrophic effect for a buyer. However, in terms of actual intent, you'd have to place it at #1 as it is the only genuine mistake among them. So I'd have to ask - are you listing those in order of criminal intent, or are you listing them in order of their consequences on a buyer? #1 grading is a matter of opinion and is unlikely to ever be any different. Mint state is an absolute if qualified at a certain magnification as is flat with no detail. Everything in between is in the eyes of the beholder. Some people grade stricter than others, but with a degree of leeway, many grading attempts could be deemed accetable. It is as Peck says, up to the buyer to make their own judgment. As long as individuals maintain a consistent standard of grading, then there is less of a black and white case for claiming a coin is overgraded. Hands cannot be held all the time, so somewhere along the line people need to be responsible for their own actions given nobody is compelled to buy. #2 & 3 I agree with Peck. If attempting to sell a coin as genuine that you know is a fake, then that is fraud. However, mistakes have been and will be made. The Circular had a copy groat in it a while back which was withdrawn when pointed out. Yesterday's sale had a copy shilling which Richard noticed. It would be irrational to believe these were attempts to defraud anyone, so the situation for most dealers is that they hope they haven't sold/will not sell a copy by mistake. 'there but for the grace of God go I' is probably the feeling of most dealers unless they make a conscious decision to abandon a particular field to avoid any such event occurring. The case of the slabbed copy in the recent thread is unlikely to have been deliberate case to deceive on the part of NGC, rather a case of being out of their depth and trying to make a buck in a series with which they are not familiar. The person submitting it may also not have realised if sold a coin as genuine, however, submitting multiple copies for slabbing would suggest the person is digging a hole for themselves - but how would you prove it? #4 would be a criminal offence in this country, but I don't believe it is in China. Unless you were to have world-wide control over all industrial production the problem cannot be avoided. The problem therefore is one of fraud committed by people who sell coins knowing they are fakes. You cannot have a totally regulated market when the masses have the ability to set up their own businesses and effectively produce what they want. A thousand years ago when the production of money in this country was delegated to a few individuals at specific locations, you still had nefarious activities taking place whereby the coinage was copied illegally. If it isn't illegal, you can't stop it. The best you can hope for is to have the copies identified (with their own privy marks for identification) and to clamp down hard on individuals who sell copies that aren't clearly so - if necessary by Act of Parliament. This would force ebay's hand in the UK, but wouldn't and couldn't apply worldwide. The danger of regulating in this way would be that it would potentially criminalise a lot of innocent people, whilst at the same time legitimising slabbed fake items because ebay have already given them unquestionable status in the US. It might seem a bit impotent, but I don't think there is much you can do apart from covering your own backside, both as buyer and seller.

I didn't view them. I was only interested in a handful of pieces - a couple hammered pennies, and a few halfcrowns. Shillings weren't part of it.

The 1853 proof 1/2d might give a misleading result as it has verdigris on both sides. It ought to be unsold, but we shall see.