Rob

It will all work fine.

The answer depends on whether I want the same lot(s) as you do. It is straightforward. You register, then as each lot opens there is a bid button at the level set by the auctioneer. Obviously the room bids are spotted quicker than the internet because once the lot is open, you have to respond and then the person manning the internet bids has to register your bid and convey it to the auctioneer. The lag is less than a second, but in that time someone in the room has probably already put their hand up. It tells you if you are the high bidder, so you can't bid against yourself. If you are outbid, you have the chance to return with a higher bid. You can't enter an oddball arbitrary number in the same way as you can with a book bid, so you have to bid on what the auctioneer is asking for. Thanks, Rob! So NO entering of numbers at all, just single clicks of a button if you are happy to continue with the bidding? Also, do you click on the opening bid straight away to let them know you're out there and interested? And then, if two others are throwing their handbags at each other on the floor, will the bid come back to me for a chance to bid? Or do I just have to keep clicking every time the screen is asking for it? You can try clicking, but it won't make any difference. Just as with a conventional auction, the auctioneer will stay with two competing bidders until one drops out. If you get in first, then your bid will be taken, but I suspect human nature takes over at some point because it is more natural to flick between two floor bidders than it is an anonymous screen with its inherent delays.

The answer depends on whether I want the same lot(s) as you do. It is straightforward. You register, then as each lot opens there is a bid button at the level set by the auctioneer. Obviously the room bids are spotted quicker than the internet because once the lot is open, you have to respond and then the person manning the internet bids has to register your bid and convey it to the auctioneer. The lag is less than a second, but in that time someone in the room has probably already put their hand up. It tells you if you are the high bidder, so you can't bid against yourself. If you are outbid, you have the chance to return with a higher bid. You can't enter an oddball arbitrary number in the same way as you can with a book bid, so you have to bid on what the auctioneer is asking for.

eBay grading for eBay buyers. The sad truth is that there are a lot of suckers out there, and as bad as you might feel about it, there is nothing you can do. It just means that the educated take note and move on, leaving an ever increasing proportion of sales of this nature to those who don't know any better - which leads to more listings of the same.........

It would make sense to collect the scarcer dates/types at the moment and wait for the bullion price to recede before picking up the common ones. They are never going to be in short supply unless there is a government inspired and legally backed impounding and melting of private gold. Prices being what they are at the moment you are only paying a few times bullion for what are quite scarce coins in some instances. A mintage of a couple tens of thousands only costs 3 or 4 times that of one which has a mintage of millions. It isn't until you get to the quantities available of the 1920S and 1819 that collector demand way outstrips supply. Even the Ansell sovereigns are not rare in low grade, though go for silly prices.

Although we didn't go decimal until 1971, the new coins were produced from 1968 onwards. It is unlikely there is anything special about the coin.

Not me. I was bidding online, so when it got to 130 I didn't hit the button.

nah wasnt even close, 2k plus vat? and my dealer reconned it wasnt worth the estimate Hammer price was £1700, so with commission and VAT would be £2.1k - out of my league. It's ok to splash out way above normal levels once in a while for a particularly difficult coin as long as you don't make a habit of it when you know you can get that piece quite easily. If you really want something, you usually have to pursue it - hard, and stick with your decision.

LOL me too. I think the majority of us here fall into the 'middle' category, and are the ones who apparently need to worry most, unless we love our coins so much that loss of value is of no concern. Well I picked up the lot I was after. 1919 Maundy set £130+juice. Would have likely cost me about £180-210 on ebay. I thought that might have been you. My max was....£130

One who collects common coins in fine or worse, who runs away when confronted with a price greater than that of a cup of coffee or a pint and who wants to pay less than melt for silver that is better off being scrapped. The only exceptions to this rule would be those engaged in a die study, where the cost of acquiring sufficient examples would be prohibitive.

As has been noted elsewhere, DNW had quite a few passed lots in the middle bracket. I think it is the age old story of quality mattering more than anything else, with the washer collectors only spending pennies and not really affected by any economic downturn (or upturn for that matter).

If the sovereigns are barometric coins, the 1920S just sold at Baldwins for £650K hammer!!. No, it wasn't me.

Gold being at close to all time highs may not be the best time to start collecting sovereigns, but weighed against that is the fact that with some of the earlier dates now priced about bullion value, you should pick up coins in top grades for little over melt value. Some will always be high relative to the bullion price. Buying sovereigns from the Royal Mint is never a good idea as they are invariably priced way over melt, but are produced in such numbers that you would only be able to sell for bullion. Coins on the whole do not make good gifts because a collector will have specific tastes which do not usually agree with those of the donor. The problem is usually compounded by the giver thinking they are giving a nice present from the likes of London Mint who sell overpriced tat. Do not buy from sellers like this to avoid the inevitable disappointment when you try to sell, and can't. If such purchases are genuine coins they will be overpriced and overgraded, if they are gold plated pennies for example, they are not collectable to the typical coin collector.

I think 2. is a problem area, the way you've presented it. In terms of the consequences (i.e. whether mistake or not) then it ranks only below #4, in other words it could have a catastrophic effect for a buyer. However, in terms of actual intent, you'd have to place it at #1 as it is the only genuine mistake among them. So I'd have to ask - are you listing those in order of criminal intent, or are you listing them in order of their consequences on a buyer? #1 grading is a matter of opinion and is unlikely to ever be any different. Mint state is an absolute if qualified at a certain magnification as is flat with no detail. Everything in between is in the eyes of the beholder. Some people grade stricter than others, but with a degree of leeway, many grading attempts could be deemed accetable. It is as Peck says, up to the buyer to make their own judgment. As long as individuals maintain a consistent standard of grading, then there is less of a black and white case for claiming a coin is overgraded. Hands cannot be held all the time, so somewhere along the line people need to be responsible for their own actions given nobody is compelled to buy. #2 & 3 I agree with Peck. If attempting to sell a coin as genuine that you know is a fake, then that is fraud. However, mistakes have been and will be made. The Circular had a copy groat in it a while back which was withdrawn when pointed out. Yesterday's sale had a copy shilling which Richard noticed. It would be irrational to believe these were attempts to defraud anyone, so the situation for most dealers is that they hope they haven't sold/will not sell a copy by mistake. 'there but for the grace of God go I' is probably the feeling of most dealers unless they make a conscious decision to abandon a particular field to avoid any such event occurring. The case of the slabbed copy in the recent thread is unlikely to have been deliberate case to deceive on the part of NGC, rather a case of being out of their depth and trying to make a buck in a series with which they are not familiar. The person submitting it may also not have realised if sold a coin as genuine, however, submitting multiple copies for slabbing would suggest the person is digging a hole for themselves - but how would you prove it? #4 would be a criminal offence in this country, but I don't believe it is in China. Unless you were to have world-wide control over all industrial production the problem cannot be avoided. The problem therefore is one of fraud committed by people who sell coins knowing they are fakes. You cannot have a totally regulated market when the masses have the ability to set up their own businesses and effectively produce what they want. A thousand years ago when the production of money in this country was delegated to a few individuals at specific locations, you still had nefarious activities taking place whereby the coinage was copied illegally. If it isn't illegal, you can't stop it. The best you can hope for is to have the copies identified (with their own privy marks for identification) and to clamp down hard on individuals who sell copies that aren't clearly so - if necessary by Act of Parliament. This would force ebay's hand in the UK, but wouldn't and couldn't apply worldwide. The danger of regulating in this way would be that it would potentially criminalise a lot of innocent people, whilst at the same time legitimising slabbed fake items because ebay have already given them unquestionable status in the US. It might seem a bit impotent, but I don't think there is much you can do apart from covering your own backside, both as buyer and seller.

I didn't view them. I was only interested in a handful of pieces - a couple hammered pennies, and a few halfcrowns. Shillings weren't part of it.

The 1853 proof 1/2d might give a misleading result as it has verdigris on both sides. It ought to be unsold, but we shall see.

This is old news. The 80000 British coins in the hoard were bought by Baldwins in 1908 as a single lot. The market has been absorbing them for over 100 years. I suspect they will still overhang the market in another 100 years time. Bite the bullet and just go for what you fancy. The average lifespan of a human being won't allow you to time the market to perfection. Long cross pennies are a market which is unlikely ever to take off into the stratosphere, but if it does - sell.

No, they are two separate sellers, the first one allegedly in Paris, the second in Ireland. It's the unexpected abundance on ebay of coins that book above £2K in VF that made me sit up and look harder. For a smaller denomination, that is a large number.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230851407246;jsessionid=95EE3002326CC123EC61EED1247566A3?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D230851407246%26_rdc%3D1 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230853992857?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D230853992857%26_rdc%3D1 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230851424836?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D230851424836%26_rdc%3D1 The third one down has raised some issues in my mind. Also on ebay at the moment is this which is the second Henry V groat in as many days. H5 groats are quite rare with the S1762B variety quoted booking at £2500 in VF. I suspect either someone is very lucky, or skullduggery has occurred. I'm just trying to get up to speed on H4 & H5 groats but the curve is a bit steep at the moment. They aren't the same things as one has a lis on the breast and one doesn't, but I note in Potter's write up on these things that contemporary copies existed, probably produced on the continent. For the record, he also noted knowing of only half a dozen coins of some types, so it is unlikely we are looking at your everyday find.

thanks for the info. Peter And this is precisely what appeals to me! For such a pretty little coin it really surprises me that they are not greater prized. It's a pretty big series, that I think will keep my copper lusts satisfied AND within budget! Winner all round for me, especially if I can get a nice bit of provenance top-up along the way! Exactly how I see them, Peck was the first attempt and Colin Cooke also did a lot of work in the series, but Tim has taken it to another level and the detail in the catalogue is much more robust and consistent. Another series where additions keep coming to light. Sounds fun! To kick-start the little project I've just ordered 3 from a well-respected dealer! Excellent choice, particularly the Lennox. Many thanks.

..............all correct spelling will be punishable by death.

Not me! Just thinking if he had gone to the right of the Lighthouse, it would have been rarer still LOL.. I was just going to say the same thing.... Great minds and all that.... Only a handful known of those..... Only one, surely? There was one reported that made me aware of it, and I currently own one, and know of one other... so that would make at least 3.... I was thinking more in terms of the "apsolutely mint state" bun halfpenny.

More than the value of the opinion.

Not me! Just thinking if he had gone to the right of the Lighthouse, it would have been rarer still LOL.. I was just going to say the same thing.... Great minds and all that.... Only a handful known of those..... Only one, surely?

Correct, but it means that everyone can have something. Very few people could buy the lot, even within a sub-section - say all the Henry pennies or the angels etc. So just make a list of potential purchases and work your way through it. There are very few sales at the main auction houses where either/or decisions don't have to be made. You either wait for something to come along at the right price, or decide you want a particular piece however much it costs and throw the book away. Your choice. Sometimes you pick up more than expected, sometimes nothing.