Rob

£22 postage looks a little excessive!!! Must be for the insurance as 1927 pure silver coins are like hens teeth They could be in pure silver because the picture shows the obverses of two identical pieces. If they were different there would be more reason to be suspicious about the pure silver claim, but as we are talking copies they could have been made yesterday and so the description must be taken at face value. I though silver was debased to 0.500 in 1920? It was. 2 identical obverses means either they can't be genuine, or a copy and paste. If not genuine, then as copies they could easily be 925 silver - god, it's no good when you have to explain. I thought you would have seen through it, or maybe I should have used a different emoticon.

I suppose the ultimate motivation is that of being an innate collector. Irrespective of the quality of the collection, it is the desire to collect - coins, stamps, antique clocks, cuddly toys, newspaper clippings or whatever it is that stimulates your interest. Funnily enough, having the best (coin) collection of all time is unlikely to feature in any list of motivating factors because the museums have a 200+ years start on us, and the likes of Montagu can't be repeated because so much material from this era is already off the market for good. The most you can aspire to is the best collection amongst your contemporaries and even then it is in the hands of a very select few.

Hi Rob, is it the electric is on a low rate at 2 in the morning? or is it you just cannot sleep? I discipline myself to turn in at 2. Left to my own devices I would keep going all night, maybe go to bed when the sun comes up and in which case wake up at the crack of lunch.

A top 50 collection might be an interesting thread. What coins and why? What to include and what to leave out? There you go - another motivating topic.

Motivation is derived from many sources. Other collections provide inspiration when you are clueless. How often do you hear new collectors saying "what should I collect?" Almost all collectors start out with a bit of this and a bit of that, but eventually settle on a focussed set of criteria. Something has to motivate them to specialise, or does the motivation arise from the captivation of their chosen criteria? Some collectors stay focussed over decades, others not. Some experienced collectors migrate from one theme to another either by choice or out of frustration from not being able to fill the vacant slots in the series. Maybe it's down to boredom, or maybe lack of funds, because as Peter says, I don't think many people would ever go into debt for a hobby. Basically we all have to go at our own financially constrained speed, which is why it doesn't help to get too worked up over the contents of someone else's collection that you have no control over. It's always nice to have the best known, but that comes with the caveat that a better best known may well be just around the corner. Having 2nd best is not a large problem as long as it is within spitting distance of the best. Far more important is that it has eye appeal, which for anyone interested in detail by definition means as high a grade as possible, though toning has a major part to play. People collecting at the top end will always have a mixture of top quality and not quite there pieces because there simply isn't sufficient material to go around. Most quality collections will have a few best knowns, but hidden away will also be a selection of indifference. Some of the Slaney hammered pieces were absolutely top drawer, but some of the milled were not. Some coins you get and others you miss out on. Some you bought whilst wearing rose tinted spectacles and live to regret. You can be collecting for decades, but still make new discoveries that motivate you on to find out more. My motivation is frequently refocussed based on a recent purchase, or a potential future purchase that I see in a forthcoming sale catalogue. I want to know if that coin on offer represents a good example to acquire. I don't want to buy something that I would later duplicate with a vastly superior piece. We are all motivated differently, with probably more divergence of viewpoints than you get with grading - which is saying a lot.

WRITE a STORY about your COIN/s, what MOTIVATES U? , Your coin related stories are important for the future of our hobby Amongst other things the writer of the title of this thread. For the - 1. quality of the collection assembled. 2. the bloody-mindedness to acquire what he wants. 3. his appreciation of the coins as works of art and for their historical significance. 4. providing me with a kick up the backside through the knowledge that I need to work harder, earn more money and so make sure I do get some of the pieces where there is competition for ownership. Or for another one. Knowing a close friend had a superb collection and thinking "that's just what I want". Not the same denominations as that would be too "me too", but something that could be appreciated as a comprehensive selection of decent material which was acquired with thought and selectivity.

For new collectors - especially the young without much money - the chance of getting good coins to start a collection, is less and less. Common coins are around in abundance though, so if youngsters stick to those, there's still hope. But upgrading to get good stock requires more and more outlay, which is great for existing collectors with decent coins, but I'd say the long-term outlook isn't that great for newbies. If the current interest subsides though, and prices see the sort of 'correction' that house prices saw, who knows? But, the stock of predecimal coins is finite and getting smaller by the year. A good collector base has always been very healthy for the hobby, with these new trends I kind of worry a little that the interest will drop of and investments take full hold. With a lack of interest a lack of knowledge may follow!? Don't panic Capt. Mainwaring. Investment portfolios won't be too important in the overall scheme of things because in the main they rely on 3rd party guarantees. Just as investors in shares and bonds look to credit rating agencies for an assessment of the creditworthiness of the issuer, so investors typically require slabbed coins which will therefore not deteriorate with handling. Raw coins will continue to be the preserve of collectors. Some high grade pieces will be slabbed in the future, but not all, and some collectors will routinely remove them from the slab to fit the tray recess. So they will form part of the future slab material for a second or third time. High grade material has been leaching from collectors' hands for centuries as various museums have taken their pick. From the end of the 18th century through to the first few decades of the 19th century, the BM was given the Cracherode and Sophia Banks collections and it bought the Roberts collection, whilst the Hunter Collection gave the museum in Glasgow its name. In the first half of the 20th century there were generous bequests by the likes of Weightman and Clarke-Thornhill. Marlborough pennies of William I are extremely rare because C E Blunt bought all the examples that came to market and donated them to Devizes Museum. He already had examples, so thought he was doing the public a favour. His collection went to the Ashmolean. Doh. Peck's collection of George III coins was taken by Birmingham Museum, so many varieties are no longer possible to collect being unique. History is littered with examples or even types that are lost to collectors, and in all practical senses to the public too because they aren't on permanent display, nor is an inventory of museum contents readily accessible. A good example of things going round is Geoff's Tournai groat. It was bought as part of the Roberts purchase in 1810, but was released as an exchange sometime post 1915 after J P Morgan's son offered his father's collection to the BM and they acquired a better piece. It's a shame they don't continue this policy today. On the plus side, things are continually being found. Offa pennies are coming out of the ground at the rate of a couple dozen every year. In Sept. 2006, Baldwin's had a sale entitled 100 Numismatic Rarities. I particularly wanted lot 5026 which was the 1644 Oxford shilling with the bust and XII reversed which had disappeared off the market since the Clarke-Thornhill sale in 1937 (obviously it had remained hidden in Baldwin's basement for 70 years), but on sale day I came second. The following year, a previously unrecorded example that was creased but a full grade higher was sold, also at Baldwins and went to the person who came third the previous year. The coin had been found in the US. We can rest assured that rarities and high grade examples will continue to be found and purchased by collectors. It's just that they will not be the previously best known examples in some instances. The world is unlikely to run out of lower grade material into the far future.

Ah, the beauties of education. I quite like the crossed arrows and pitchfork description. The identification of writing and a man's head deserves plaudits too.

£22 postage looks a little excessive!!! Must be for the insurance as 1927 pure silver coins are like hens teeth They could be in pure silver because the picture shows the obverses of two identical pieces. If they were different there would be more reason to be suspicious about the pure silver claim, but as we are talking copies they could have been made yesterday and so the description must be taken at face value.

Or a £5 bank bag of mixed bronze that has been sitting in the back of a safe since the mid 1880s would suit me, hours if sorting! That would be one of those amazing once in a lifetime, never to be repeated moments, that rarely happen At £5 face, it would still have minimal numbers of rarities (probably), and still be missing some of the rarer types. Also, even by the 1880s there would have been significant wear from circulation, so it's unlikely you would have picked up many desirable pieces.

That's a pretty good summary of where we are with slabs. The main problem as far as the US TPGs are concerned is their lack of knowledge, or their indifference regarding attribution. One of the regular people on the PCGS forum bought a proof Geo.III halfpenny from me. It came back as a currency MS62 despite complying with the full page description in Peck regarding the type. The devotion of many in the US to slabs means that the grade and attribution won't be queried. The TPG is the ultimate arbiter and I as a nobody must be wrong. It's no more than a business model that some subscribe to, but with recognisable faults that an open-eyed collector can see through. For the initiator of this thread, do not expect higher prices from UK buyers just because a coin is slabbed. If slabbed by NGC or PCGS then it would appeal to US buyers more, but only if the number is exceptional for the coin type. If in doubt, don't bother, as you are unlikely to be only uncertain person as to whether slabbing adds value. Slabbing for protection has a rational basis for use, but paying someone for a numbered label and an opinion on the grade can rarely be worth the effort unless the coin is exceptional given the ever increasing number of slabs in the market place. I learned the hard way not to overpay based on grade having bought 2 or 3 MS65s with edge defects which were only seen once out of the slab.

They used cut up silver plate, weighed it and stamped the value. That is why you get the odd denominations. No melting involved.

Thanks Accumulator. If anyone else wants to do similar searches and report the results in this thread to confirm or repudiate the suspicion, I'll have a word with Phil tomorrow if necessary.

1) B.P. are the initials of the designer of the famous George and Dragon reverse - Benedetto Pistrucci. 2) Perhaps gF to aVF. 3) Spink catalogue for Half Sovereign without BP in exergue (S.3881A) has prices £100, £125, £395, £2150 for F, VF, EF and UNC respectively. Nick, I think you'll find those prices are for the 1897 without BP. 2011 Spink doesn't list the 1900 without the initials, hence it may be an interesting find but need Marsh to confirm. Marsh (half-sovereign 2nd ed.) notes at the top of p.42 that "B.P. for Benedetto Pistrucci do not appear on this type". This would suggest that all old head halves are without BP and that the initials are the exception. Not being into half sovereigns, I can't comment, but perhaps someone can add to this. Sovereigns do have BP in the exergue. Neither the image in Spink, nor my 1893 London half have BP, so it is quite possible that the half section in Spink was written assuming that BP is normal as per the sovereign, but when the 1897 was added to the list later, the person suggested inclusion noted the BP was missing having read the text to assume that BP was present. Note that S3879A is a Melbourne 1896 similarly noted as being without BP. If people can do a check on all the images they can find for veiled head halves and can confirm the total absence of BP, it would be worth getting Spink to remove S3879A and S3881A from the list with a note added to S3878 that BP is not present. I would suggest that Marsh is probably right on such a fundamental point. We could do all this today and get in touch with Phil tomorrow if correct, in time for inclusion in the next edition.

Thanks Joey, I've had several oportunities to buy this coin but always declined because of the wear to the laurel leaves and knee. I already have a normal flan piece without this detraction. A wish list might be a bit misleading as I already have the two posted, but they stand out as a realised dream. On the question of unrealised dreams I would put forward this Truro crown as a candidate. Ex Montagu, Murdoch and Wakley, it was bought by Spink at the Wakley sale in 1909 and as far as I can establish has not reappeared in a catalogue since then. It may be in a museum by now, but on the assumption it isn't you may rest assured it will go for a lot of money should it come up for sale. At the Wakley sale it realised £30 compared to the Petition and Reddite Crowns' £43 each.

The weight is 1.95g. Nothing in Wilkinson, have not got Brown. Despite being slightly clipped, it still appears to be slightly undersized to be a 6d. However considering there is no evidence of any such groat and assuming it is not a forgery, I assume it must be an unusually small 6d flan in combination with slight clipping. It can go in the scrap hammered pile for eventual bulk sale unless new evidence comes to light. Sounds like a copy. A well worn sixpence would still weigh around 2.5-2.6g. To take 20% more off that would require more clipping.

There isn't anything to suggest it is a groat. It looks like a 6d because it's slightly clipped and in any case they came on different flan sizes - see Spink p.254. The mark is pheon, so 1561 ish onwards. It should be possible to confirm that with the weight. From your questions I presume it doesn't conform to any of the descriptions in Spink, Brown Comber and Wilkinson or any other reference, so do you suspect a forgery? It's so dire that I can't imagine anyone would want it, though I suppose there's always a willing buyer on eBay as I presume you are looking to sell? Don't ask anyone to identify the bust type though unless specific to the flan size.

Slightly more mundane. A pattern shilling in copper.

That's an early milled beauty, it really is. Just supposing your dreams came true and you had the funds to realise it, how much would that set you back? £9645.25 plus postage at 2003 prices

You don't want this one, the lustre is suspect.

Now I get it, it's your birthday present. Happy birthday and well done the person who chose it for you.

No groats, not even patterns. There is a dated 1st issue penny, but not much else. The countermarked Edward VI shillings from 1560 were dated, though the date was obviously either 1549, 1550 or 1551.

Scott, you remind me of the son of a person I met from London about 20-25 years ago. When we first met, his immediate reply was "Cor, you dun ahf talk funny mite" - an unlikely arrangement of letters and words. ..Yes, well..... Unlike my friend's son, is there any danger of using your mother tongue in a written form that I can recognise? It's worse than Azda's teutonic iPhone. Thanks in advance.

Is that yours, and if so is it the one that Roddy had? my pin brain thought it was ExBarr, did not see your prior reply Could be for all I know. I just remember Roddy having one recently.

If we are in fantasy mode, will Father Xmas bring me one of these please? Ceonwulf penny David No we aren't in fantasy mode. That's not allowed. If you get hold of it, please could you bring along the Hywel Dda penny for me while you're at it. Ta very much.