Rob

I remember about 15 years ago an occasion when my friend had a documentary film all about window cleaners and window cleaning. There was a really catchy riff playing throughout which I couldn't help humming every time I saw his better half.

It's difficult to think of anything less appropriate than an advert for cleaning on a coin forum. We don't clean anything round here, do we?

It depends on the size. A halfpenny is just under 30mm diameter, the farthing is 23mm ish. Both figures are not exact because there was no collar used to restrain the coin from spreading when struck. It could be either denomination if 1737, but only a halfpenny if 1747 as no farthings were struck in 1747 or 1748. If you can't make out the date, it is unlikely to be in good condition and worth very little. If it is a contemporary counterfeit it could also be dated 1757 (or 1747 for that matter).

The bidding increments on this lot at Plymouth were a lesson for those trying to throw off the opposition. It got to £30K with the winner in £1K steps, then it went £30,500, then £31K, then £31,500, then the killer blow by the winner calling out £32,500 rather than going £32K. It may have been to ensure that the winner used up every bit of leeway he had or not, I don't know, but it gave the desired result as the underbidder passed.

Small spot just in front of the nose, thumbprint on the reverse, the green(?) crud on the shield and at the first A. The toning streaks to both sides are not what you would expect on a bronzed proof either, as normally you would be looking for a smooth, even colour. I don't know if the edge looks good so can't comment. The estimate of £400-500 was too high if these factors are taken into consideration. I sold one with similar faults just over a year ago for £325 if I remember correctly, but it didn't exactly fly off the shelf. Fair comment, although the thumbprint must have been on the scanner bed (ooops!) as it doesn't appear on the coin. This makes me realise just how much I need a camera set-up. The coin looks so much better in hand than on the scans. As a comparison, here are the seller's photos: Certainly looks better. And bronzed.

Small spot just in front of the nose, thumbprint on the reverse, the green(?) crud on the shield and at the first A. The toning streaks to both sides are not what you would expect on a bronzed proof either, as normally you would be looking for a smooth, even colour. I don't know if the edge looks good so can't comment. The estimate of £400-500 was too high if these factors are taken into consideration. I sold one with similar faults just over a year ago for £325 if I remember correctly, but it didn't exactly fly off the shelf.

I haven't checked the contents of the lots, but there is nothing to say that he hasn't augmented the selection in the ensuing couple of years.

He's sold some serious coins in the last month or so on ebay, so there are still serious collectors looking on the bay to They are likely to be the remaining unsolds from his sale. It appears that 39 out of the 676 lots were unsold, if my sums are correct.

Having done a bit of digging, this coin was listed as a P1326 in 2009 in a sale. It didn't sell though with an estimate of £400-500 which was probably as a result of the impairment.

It is probably no coincidence that it was an unsold lot with an estimate of £500-600 when his collection went through the saleroom. Bearing that in mind the price is probably right.

The price of an almost certainly unique gold coin that had been off the market for 104 years until it resurfaced in 2008 is completely unrelated to the expected price of a run-of-the-mill pattern. The actual price of the gold piece was £32500 hammer (£38226.50 with premium), plus the commission charged by the person acting for him/her in the saleroom.

It doesn't look to be in the best condition. There are a couple of rim marks, a couple of spots and a fingerprint on the reverse. The angled image also results in bright spots at the top of both sides. Given the above, I would automatically assume it was hiding something. If you had a better presentation and what I perceive was wrong, then it would be worth bidding higher, but £400 is adequate for the item as seen.

This is a 1799 halfpenny, so the ship will be different, but you can see where the stays are to be found.

Nope. He means the stays between the foremast and the pointy bit at the front.

Interesting, Rob. The finish on your left hand piece is very similar to the finish on my coin which is a red-brown and very uniform in appearance. Certainly no evidence of mottling or discolouration whatsoever, in fact it has a beautiful even colouration (although this really isn't as evident in the scans as in hand!). As Derek says, Peck has bronzed as being rarer but this may be not be true. I'm tending toward P1327 then. One final question. Does anyone have a close-up photo (and it would have to be a close-up as it's practically invisible!) of the 2 or 3 stays from foremast to bowsprit? Even colouration would lean towards bronzed which is P1326. I don't have any proof 1806 pennies, so can't help on the stay front. Get a glass on it and count them. Obviously there should be 3 if Peck is correct, but the image in the book isn't clear enough. I've attached an image of the ship on a P1326 I used to own, but again it isn't clear enough. The ship punches are specific to the type or types of proof, but the currency pieces must have had the ship engraved by hand as over 50 ship varieties are recorded.

Hi again who do i need to talk to about this book please . Me. PM sent.

I agree 100%. If I buy a coin it is on the basis of the worst side, so my grading glass is always half empty.

You can't go by Peck's rarity attributions any more than you can rely on ESC or Freeman etc. All of these references were compiled when data had to be compiled from relatively limited resources. Today, with the internet and most auctions on-line, not to mention dealers' websitesites, it is possible to reassess the rarity values even though we still don't and can't have the full picture. Tha Adams penny collection had both P1326 and P1327, the bronzed is markedly browner and the copper dark, but the picture quality is such that I wouldn't rely on it for a comparison. The images are available in the archived catalogue section.

I thought the cat laid it.

All bar the 1903 are around the EF level, but the 1903 is better. The images aren't high res enough to clearly see the wear, but the first point to go is the fingers on 20th century bronze. There is obvious wear on 4 of the 5, but not on the 1903. Prices - Colin is the best man for this as I'm not an ardent follower of farthings. Spink list Ed.VII farthings at about £12 each in EF, but that seems a bit optimistic and I certainly wouldn't entertain paying that much.

I wouldn't have done that as it is too cheap. In fact I would have increased it rather than reduce it. For anyone who needs one of these it is a bargain at that price. I'm not interested as I have a few of them.

direct flash

brighter light

This might help. 3 images in different lighting levels. I know it isn't your coin, but the period is correct and the colours are not atypical to others I have seen of these types. The copper can have a range of tones from light to virtually black. The latter usually has a degree of associated iridesence. KP31 is clearly a Late Soho product as the 1 & 0 are defective, presumably from a filled die. Attached are a pair of Late Soho halfpennies in an attempt to match the finish employed with the period, KH37 (P1365 bronzed on the left) and KH39 (P1367 copper on the right). The bronzed piece on the left is redder in colour and markedly different to the copper which has a more mottled appearance.

This is always a contentious issue. If you laid out a dozen coins (6 copper, 6 bronzed) side by side you would probably end up with 4 definite coppers, 4 definite bronzed and 4 definite maybes. The waters are further muddied by the colour depending on the period in which they were struck. Soho and Taylor produced markedly different colour bronzed flans. Soho produced different coloured bronzed flans at different times. Most of the time you can tell, but it is always better in the hand. It ticks the boxes for a P1326 or P1327, but I wouldn't like to say which from the image. The whole reason for bronzing is to provide a uniform colour across the surface. This is frequently applied to medals. Copper can tone in wildly differing shades and it is this lack of uniformity which lead to bronzing in the first place.