Rob

Without the coin in hand, it isn't really possible to give an objective opinion on the relief of the date. If the coin is slightly dished, then the wear could be uneven. Dates are also punched in unevenly. The two types of 1860 1/2d BB reverses are a good example of this with a choice of wider spaced 60 or a narrower one with a lower 0.

Or simply just a case of correcting an error in the punch used.

From the image it looks as if there is a trace of the colon after BRITANNIAR as this is set a bit low with the top stop about half way up the R and the bottom stop below the base level. It looks alright, but for completion's sake - what is the die axis?

If there was some way of ensuring all the copies went into a replica folder, that would reduce the number by at least 10% overall and more for the older categories such as hammered and early milled. Like Peckris, I simply can't find the enthusiasm to trawl through the pages of crap. It is possible to use mental filters as well because although many listings are textbook examples of illiteracy, the ability to copy and paste means you can frequently identify a known purveyor of crap by the spelling mistakes in the title and say the background colour characteristics of the thumbnail. Others may simply list all coins in the hammered section or wherever. There are plenty of ways to identify certain sellers without viewing the listing, but whether this compensates for the vast numbers you can't readily identify is a moot point. There are additional pointers that can be used to identify rubbish such as the regular use of inappropriate words.

I have one or two Adolph Weyl patterns and several Lauer play coins all 1887. Weyl is not so hard to get a brief history for try http://www.rpcoins.co.uk/c14.html and if you can talk with Rob Pearce, I hope you are not the same Rob, he is also working on an article concerning the provenances of all Weyl coin patterns. What Weyl patterns do you have please? Anything of 1887 would be of particular interest. Andrew Sadly, I fear I am the same Rob that met the same Andrew earlier this year.

I am trying to compile an article on the Weyl patterns and I am looking for references to any literature outlining the history, trading dates, products and any other info regarding Lauer, the manufacturer of various toy coins etc based in Nurnberg. It can be written in English or German. Chris? Thanks.

I was going to make a collection of a coin by each attributed designer. Prior to 1970 (about 450 years) there were about 75. Since 1970 (the ensuing 40 years) there have been about 40 up to the end of Spink's 2009. I'm not going to bother post-1970 because by the time the Olympics are over the number will probably exceed the 75 mentioned above - and I suspect none of them will be collectable because the mint output is verging on a serious medical condition that needs urgent treatment.

Presumably Guy Newson bought it at the M&E sale. He's been spending a lot of money in the London sales of late. Much if not all of what he buys resurfaces on ebay.

Text for the M&E catalogue was copied verbatim in the previous post. I don't have a copy of the Christies Rome sale.

It's the one from the last Morton & Eden sale (lot 263) where it was catalogued as a proof. Didn't see it though so wouldn't like to say. The provenance suggests it could possibly be a proof because if the future King doesn't get one, then who would, even if it doesn't have the raised edge? But given it was polished we will probably never know. The lot description says "The edge lettering on this piece is finer & less deeply impressed than that found on circulating coins and it could be argued that the coin is therefore, strictly speaking, a pattern. Provenance: Christies Rome 17th June 2004, lot 605 and formerly the property of Edward, Duke of Windsor. It is likely that the Duke, as Prince of Wales, would have received such as coin and the cleaning which it has undergone is typical of many of the pieces in his collection.

He offered me a trio of decimal patterns, one of which was identifiable as being from his collection. I think there were probably more though. As MJF usually prices them high to start with and I already had one of the varieties on offer I didn't bother chasing it up. I think it is possible that he still has coins from the collection. You could always ask the question.

The picture of the last page where there are Weyl patterns makes interesting reading. There are names assigned to the winning bidders which are found nowhere else and are not familiar to anyone who attended sales on a routine basis. I think they are fictional on the grounds that you would get blocks of 3 or 4 lots assigned to the same (unheard of) name followed by another block of 3 or 4 lots to a different unrecognised name. This happened on more than one occasion in this and other sales around this time. The implication is that these were unsold lots being bought in. It makes interesting reading when you analyse some of the sale results at this time as it suggests that sales were not so strong as might be assumed. Certainly the market was quite weak in the first half of the 80's having fallen by 30-40% in about '82-3. I suspect these were actually unsold lots - eg. the aluminium 1887 1/2d was acquired later by Joanna Tansley (sold at DNW 28/9/05 lot 382) and was bought from Patrick Deane (a dealer) shortly after the sale which lends credence to this idea.

That's silly. You can pick one up for £10-15. Unless it has been annotated with a full list of where the coins were purchased to record or enhance the provenances I can think of no reason why anyone would buy it. Even then, the added value would only be a factor of 2 or 3. The provenances of the 4 coins I have that are clearly identifiable from his collection were freely communicated to me when I asked, so I can't think what else there is to offer.

As a significant participant who helped kick off the current steep upward trend at the Slaney sale in 2003 with his purchase of the Petition Crown, I hope he is not forecasting the future based on insider knowledge of his forthcoming purchases. I was hoping that my nemesis on more than one occasion was taking a really long and well earned break. Twenty years should suffice.

Assuming it is a guinea (diameter about 23mm), in that condition plus the fact that it has been holed it would be worth bullion value. The reverse looks a bit better, but it has clearly been polished a lot with the lack of obverse detail. However, if it is a half guinea (diameter about 20mm), it may be worth a bit more as 1792 is a very rare year. Spink 2009 gives prices of £500 in fine and £1550 in VF with no higher price quoted. This is x4 the price quoted for all the other years of this issue. Notwithstanding the fact it has been holed and the obverse of your coin is nowhere near fine, if it is in fact a 1/2 guinea you might expect a slight premium to bullion due to its rarity. The image shows a gap between the first G and the hair which suggests it is a half, but the unambiguous test will be the diameter.

I've got a 1905 with the 1st & 4th R's with a tail and the 2nd & 3rd short. Don't know if that is already covered though. The D's are as for obv.2 and the E's have a shorter top bar.

For all of you desperate to acquire the key date 1925 half crown, you could do worse than bid in the next Noble auction. Lots 1902-1919 contain a cumulative total in excess of 4000 of them. Rare - I think not . Ebay is likely to be full of them at some point unless they hopefully get melted down because most are not really collectable. link

I have just used the silver content vs the current spot price. I don't think you could actually realise £2 because there are margins, commissions and wear to consider should it be sold, but it gives a ballpark figure.

The design is the same for both 6ds and 1/-s, so the diameter will tell you. Shillings are about 23mm, 6ds are 19mm. Value in that condition is melt - which at this moment is about £2 for a 1/- AND £1 for a 6d.

I don't think it is a fake because the workmanship is quite competent. I think it is a token or medallet of some kind - perhaps someone else on the forum knows about these things. Just because it is the same size as a £2 doesn't mean that it was intended to pass as one.

It isn't a coin. It may be toy money or a gaming token. If intended to be a forgery then presumably it would be for a crown or higher denomination depending on size. However, neither the bust nor the reverse are remotely like any of the official designs, and so by extension is unlikely to be a genuine forgery - if that isn't a contradiction in terms.

Are you saying you want to buy an example of the illustrated coins for the prices indicated or are they the actual coins? If they are the coins on offer then the price for the half crown seems way too cheap, that for the florin less so. So if you have been offered the actual coins in the pictures for the prices listed I would question why. The half crown looks ok, but the florin is featureless and washed out indicating it has been cleaned or dipped. In that case not so attractive as a purchase.

Few too many proofs for my liking, but in mitigation, I love this 1919H penny on page 2. The sales blurb associated with the lot is a bit economical. It suggests that people have difficulty grading coins that aren't mint red and that the slabbed grade should give added confidence for bidders. What it doesn't mention is that a penny with wear to Britannia's fingers isn't uncirculated, shouldn't be called mint state, and shouldn't be graded 64. There also appears to be some trace of rubbing to the portrait. I am sure it will do well.

But they do say that copper prices in UNC are for examples with full lustre, so that covers BU. cf. p.446 in the 2009 tome. I never spotted that . But to get me out of the hole I have just dug why do other books state different prices for Unc and BU coins. On another note how can you determine a correct price for a coin with say 25%, 50%, nearly full lustre, or is this left to the seller’s opinion. What I am trying to say is I AM CONFUSED, when I look at one of my coins and one is brighter that the other how do I put a value on the coin when no book can specify this in detail. I think this can lead to confusion for the collector, especially for someone new to the hobby. Forgive me for being a bit thick, but this is the only part of coin collecting that I am not confidant about (grading). I have the 'Standard Guide to Grading British Coins' but to this extent I am still none the wiser. I suppose it’s like buying a car, to the seller the car can look in great condition but to the purchaser it can look ok, until the time you want to sell the car after you have purchased it. Mark The correct price for a coin with whatever percentage of lustre (or in any other grade for that matter) is what the buyer is happy to pay. This obviously varies from person to person. You can't have a binding, fixed recommended retail price for coins any more than you can for any other item.

But they do say that copper prices in UNC are for examples with full lustre, so that covers BU. cf. p.446 in the 2009 tome.