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Everything posted by Rob
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1938 brass three pence die crack
Rob replied to viola133's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
It looks like a laminating flan from the image and not a crack on the die. Either way it isn't worth more than a pound in that condition because of the wear and verdigris - that is if you can find someone willing to buy. Very few 20th century coins are worth a significant amount when not in mint state due to the numbers available. 1938 is a slightly scarcer year, but still not difficult to find. -
The nearest regular one to you will be the Wakefield Fair at the Cedar Court Hotel just off junction 39 of the M1. The next one is on the 25th January. It opens at about 9:30 and runs until 1 or 2 o'clock. There is also a twice yearly fair at York racecourse on the 3rd Friday and Saturday of January and July; next sale is 16-17 Jan opens at 11am Friday and 10am Saturday but you are best going on the Friday. There is also an annual 2 day event at the Old Swan Hotel in Harrogate, the next one is the 20-21st March 2009. I am not aware of any fairs specifically in the north-east, but Corbitts hold an annual sale in the summer most years. Wakefield is only an hour and a half from Newcastle.
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There are a lot of reputable dealers and a lot of iffy ones. ebay can be good for coins if you know what you are looking at, but will frequently scam you for an overpriced, polished, corroded or otherwise defective coin. There are bargains to be had if you know what you are doing, but much better to have a discussion with someone who knows what they are talking about before buying anything and everything. Much of what is listed on ebay is overgraded and many items are not worth the 99p starting price. Some dealers do charge very high prices which is why it is important to do your homework first. But importantly, the prices in books are only indicative and may not reflect fully the rarity or demand for a specific item. They can be both under and overpriced in these volumes. You need a reference point, so get yourself a book which gives indicative prices such as Chris' CCGB or Spink's Coinage of England and then use the web to find similar examples of specific coins. Spink's book for example has three pages dedicated to grading at the start of the milled coinage section and shows coins of a similar type in a range of grades. Look for examples of these on websites to compare the claimed grades and the prices asked. You will see that pictures of uncirculated and extremely fine coins frequently don't look too different, but when you come to sell there is a world of difference in prices. Genuinely uncirculated pieces are actually quite difficult and some virtually impossible to find unless modern. Most UNCs on ebay will be VF or upwards, though sometimes you will even find things without detail described as such. Do not rely on the claimed grade, learn to do it yourself. Visit coin fairs and talk to dealers as they will be happy to help. There is one in Birmingham on the 2nd Sunday of each month and one in Wakefield on the last Sunday of each month except for December. Someone else will have to fill in the details of the London fairs. Best advice is to read, then read some more, then look at coins and see if the literature makes sense. If not, ask questions. Royal Mint commemoratives are best left alone. They are produced in bulk for the masses, overpriced and almost without exception will never become valuable collectables.
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Your favourite coins
Rob replied to Red Riley's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
First of all I would like to point out that unlike just about everyone else, I don't have a love affair with half-crowns. As a result I only have about 20 in total including a few oddballs. As regards the most aesthetically pleasing design, I would put the George VI silver threepence reverse right up there. Simple, but effective. Obverses are more difficult because they are typically just a head. Therefore the gothic has to get my vote because of the detail. These are of course subjective and liable to be superseded by the latest stunning acquisition - whatever that may be. I tend to have favourite individual coins as opposed to types. -
There are a couple of programs about including one, details or contacts for which was posted on this site in the last couple of months. I use Access for details of my collection.
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We still get the second post every day, usually round about 11am, however, they have cancelled the first post, which used to arrive about 8.00 - 8.30am. You were lucky. Our first post used to arrive any time up to 4 o'clock in the afternoon, though second post was usually here by mid-day. Apparently it was all due to the first post postman having to do two rounds, while the second post postman only had to do one round. Ah, the wonders and nonsense of job demarcation.
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1887 sixpence with A over A in Victoria
Rob replied to a topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
All 1887 sixpences are common. It would make no difference to the value if a character has been recut or if two distinctly separate cuts were made. This is just human error, but not on a big enough scale to be a collectable rarity. -
shilling 1817 i of honi over s
Rob replied to a topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Difficult to say. In 2001, DNW sold one for £732 including premium which was described as in brilliant mint state and one of only 4 known, but given that I had one of the 4 and have subsequently had 2 others (not previously recorded), combined with the other 3 listed in DNW and a few others that I know about the figure of 4 known is obviously adrift from reality which would reduce the value somewhat. Hazarding a guess on the total number of pieces out there, I would say we may be looking at less than 20, so R4 in ESC rarity terms but still a relatively scarce variety. There is obviously scope for reducing this rarity estimate depending on the number that come to light. Yours may be a previously recorded example. In terms of value, the large rim nick doesn't help, but it looks to be worth at least a couple hundred quid and assuming it hasn't been cleaned or polished, I would give you that now. Of the pieces I have seen to date, I had one struck from the same pair of dies to this (one of the original 4 known as described in the DNW sale) and another struck from the same reverse, but a different obverse die. -
1862 penny - is this an overstrike?
Rob replied to Bolt's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
There isn't anything to suggest the 8 is over another character. The shape of the 6 is different for Victorian silver compared to the bronze coinage. The copper 6's are the same shape as the halfcrowns, but the bonze isn't and this would appear as an ascending line across the top loop, through and out the top if over a 6. -
Comparitive rarity of British silver milled coins.
Rob replied to freewheels's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Forget the ESC rarity numbers as most are wildly out. There are several examples of R7 where there are approaching a dozen known, conversely I can think of an R3 where I am unable to locate a single recorded example. Similarly with another rated R. I suggest you take the rarity with a pinch of salt. Any chance you could give some examples? Thanks. The Roman 1 1825 shilling rated as R7 or 1 or 2 known is the most glaring example of an overrated rarity. I've seen at least half a dozen of them and know of others. The 1812 Bank Token ESC975 with small letters is also rated R7 but Baldwin have one in their winter list where it is noted as the 5th specimen they have seen available. There was another sold at London Coins this year. Regarding those where I am unable to find any recorded example, I think it would be prudent from my perspective to keep looking and obtain one if possible before divulging this information. Similarly, there are a large number of unrecorded examples where an unknown variety is known for the preceding or following year. This is obviously due to the dies being used until worn out rather than on a strict calender year basis. -
Comparitive rarity of British silver milled coins.
Rob replied to freewheels's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Forget the ESC rarity numbers as most are wildly out. There are several examples of R7 where there are approaching a dozen known, conversely I can think of an R3 where I am unable to locate a single recorded example. Similarly with another rated R. I suggest you take the rarity with a pinch of salt. -
Comparitive rarity of British silver milled coins.
Rob replied to freewheels's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
I have the 1667/4s listed as Adams (1) which was in the sale, ex Lingford, Pearce and Hunt (fair to fine). Adams (2) sold at Spink the previous March which was ex Bonhams 5/6/1997 lot 77 (overgraded in that sale as fine) and the 3rd was in the Circular Sept.93 no.6197 (poor) at £850 where stated to be the second known at the time (presumably yours). Clearly this would make the Bonhams example the 3rd known as people were already aware of the Lingford and Pearce collections. Any details for the fourth would be welcome. Off the top of my head, Harry Manville had a 1669 1/- which was lot 628 in his sale, Spink 140 16/11/1999. Infuriatingly, the info on the 1666's isn't immediately to hand. Must tidy up!! The other 1667 I saw was on ebay about a year ago and was in Fair and somebody wanted £3K for it - don't think it sold. This MIGHT have been the Adams specimen but for some reason I thought it was a new one. Not sure if you can search ebay for all past sales of an item to check. There might of course be a 1667 in the BM. Interestingly Stephen Fenton told me at Coinex that there are some rare shillings for sale in his (St James) auction in November, including 1681 E&C, 1683 first type and 1666 guinea head. I won't be bidding as I have these but others might be interested! There was one on ebay about 2 years ago or so which was offered by john8150 or something like that priced at £2750 or £2800 initially I think. This was the Adams duplicate (ex-Bonhams) which sold for £2100ish at the sale. -
Comparitive rarity of British silver milled coins.
Rob replied to freewheels's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
I have the 1667/4s listed as Adams (1) which was in the sale, ex Lingford, Pearce and Hunt (fair to fine). Adams (2) sold at Spink the previous March which was ex Bonhams 5/6/1997 lot 77 (overgraded in that sale as fine) and the 3rd was in the Circular Sept.93 no.6197 (poor) at £850 where stated to be the second known at the time (presumably yours). Clearly this would make the Bonhams example the 3rd known as people were already aware of the Lingford and Pearce collections. Any details for the fourth would be welcome. Off the top of my head, Harry Manville had a 1669 1/- which was lot 628 in his sale, Spink 140 16/11/1999. Infuriatingly, the info on the 1666's isn't immediately to hand. Must tidy up!! How do these compare to 1937 Edward 8th brass 3ds in price and (lack of) availability? The Edward VIII 3ds are more common, but the popularity of anything to do with Edward VIII means that the price for them rockets. Mark Rasmussen had one advertised for sale at £27500 in his list 7 (Winter 2004/5) and Baldwin's sale no. 48 in Sept. 2006 had one (lot 5041) estimated at £22-26K which realised £19K. i.e way over the cost of anything else discussed with the exception of the Dorrien & Magens shilling which has always been highly prized and priced accordingly. £20-22K seems to be about the going rate for an Edward VIII 3d. -
Comparitive rarity of British silver milled coins.
Rob replied to freewheels's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
I have the 1667/4s listed as Adams (1) which was in the sale, ex Lingford, Pearce and Hunt (fair to fine). Adams (2) sold at Spink the previous March which was ex Bonhams 5/6/1997 lot 77 (overgraded in that sale as fine) and the 3rd was in the Circular Sept.93 no.6197 (poor) at £850 where stated to be the second known at the time (presumably yours). Clearly this would make the Bonhams example the 3rd known as people were already aware of the Lingford and Pearce collections. Any details for the fourth would be welcome. Off the top of my head, Harry Manville had a 1669 1/- which was lot 628 in his sale, Spink 140 16/11/1999. Infuriatingly, the info on the 1666's isn't immediately to hand. Must tidy up!! -
Half penny 1807 grade
Rob replied to Andriulis's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Fine is about right and should only cost a pound or two. It is common enough to not buy it and pay a little bit more for a good one. -
It is a Swedish 1 ore coin in copper. There are several types depending on the edge which can be either plain (ie. flat), with lozenges or milled. In this grade due to the corrosion none are worth very much. The Krause references are 239.1, 239.2 or 239.3 respectively.
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Comparitive rarity of British silver milled coins.
Rob replied to freewheels's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Of the coins you list, all are rare with the 1841 being the commonest. The rarest of the list is clearly the 1667/4 of which there are 3 known examples. There was one listed in the Spink sale of March 2005 which was with other duplicates from the Adams collection prior to his whole collection being sold in the December of that year and which contained a second, slightly better example. Having been offered the duplicate prior to auction, I have to confess that neither was particularly appealing given their low grade! There is one particularly good example of the 1726 which Spink sold around 10 or 12 years(?) ago. This is way above the rest and particularly choice. All of the above crop up from time to time, you just have to keep your eyes open. Relative rarities will usually reflect the requirements for coinage at the time. That is why no halfpennies were struck during Anne's reign for example following the huge issues of William III. -
There is a note on page 121 of Seaby's "Copper Coins and Tokens of the British Isles" (1949) which may be pertinent to this thread. There it states that the earliest 19th century tokens were worn Geo.II and Geo.III halfpennies (many of them forgeries) and 18th century private tokens which were privately re-issued with a countermark stamped with the name (and presumably also initials) of the new issuer. This was in the first few years of the century before the metal bashers in Birmingham got seriously involved.
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If I recall correctly, you stick it on the gas ring... Correct in the case of the blue, and the red comes from Brasso or similar.
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For the Grace of Guy?
Rob replied to Chris Perkins's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
It depends on how much less than fine. There was a lot of rubbish in that sale which was seriously overgraded. The virtually complete run of florins graded as UNC or thereabouts were all no better than EF. A few lots were accurately graded, but not many. Compared to other sales where prices have been close to book, this sale appeared to have bids in line with or just below description rather than reality. So I would think Fair should be around the £150 mark given it is not a particularly common coin. It's rare enough for there to be not too much difference in price between Fair and Fine because most examples are varyingly dire, but a huge premium would be payable for a quality example. -
For the Grace of Guy?
Rob replied to Chris Perkins's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
Lot 368 in Warwick & Warwick's sale on 9/4/08 was an example listed as Fine which sold for £220 hammer. A bit short of this IMHO, so £300 is probably about right given that over the top money was paid in this sale for mostly overgraded lots. -
So it's likely that both aren't right. It's very rare to find an oddball piece such as these in a proper coin auction, but ebay has dozens during the year. That should tell you something.....
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Wonder if they do teas... Nah, tarts. He comes from Bakewell.
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Shilling of Britain
Rob replied to Andriulis's topic in British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries
It looks real enough. A 1723 SSC shilling is quite common even in high grade (which this isn't) so there is no incentive for people to make forgeries, and I don't think any of the usual culprits make a copy of this type. Its grade is Fine, and its value is about £20. It is a one year type with 3 varieties of reverse. Yours is the common one and the others are with C struck over SS in the 3rd quarter (not as rare as ESC indicates and in fact is fairly common) whilst the third is with the French Arms in the shield by the date. This is scarce in any grade and extremely rare in top grade. It is made from silver supplied by the South Sea Company hence the initials SS and C in the angles on the reverse. -
BANS link. This would be a means of contacting your local numismatic society if there is one in your area.