Rob

Yes. Whilst Hartlebury can't be definitely eliminated as the place indicated by HC. We can certainly eliminate it as the place referred to if the coins were struck in 1646 for the reason given previously. Royalist troop concentrations were few and far between in 1646, with Exeter and Aberystwyth surrendering in the middle of April and Newark a month later, it left only Oxford of the attested mints producing coin into the summer. The only other significant 1646 issue is the 'B' mint coins, which I think had to be either somewhere in NW Wales or around Raglan in Monmouthshire, any of which could potentially be produced up to late June or early July.

Thanks. One useful snippet of information. George Winter was created a baronet in April 1642 and sided with the King in the Civil War. As you might have guessed, I am looking at the HC and trying to find a meaning for it. It has to be a place name. Cheshire has Halton Castle and Holt Castle, Flintshire has Hawarden Castle, Worcestershire has (another) Holt Castle, but that was the property of a Parliament supporter, so unlikely as a source, which is how I considered Huddington. There are other HCs, but not near Worcester. It occurred to me that Charles might have stayed at Huddington Court for approximately a week in July 1644. After the Battle of Cropredy Bridge at the end of June 1644, he entered Oxford, then left almost immediately when he headed south towards Abingdon, there made an about turn and headed towards Worcester, going via Evesham. He then stayed in the Droitwich area according to one report, or Evesham if another is to be believed for approx. a week before heading to the west country where the Royalists destroyed Essex's force at Lostwithiel in August. This period of a week would be sufficient to produce the HC halfcrowns if Huddington Court was indeed where he stayed. Huddington is 5 miles from Worcester and Droitwich, and 10 from Evesham - so possible. I also suspect the HC halfcrowns may be the work of Rawlins, who was at Oxford in the spring / early summer of 1644, and I believe went to the W/SA area for the remainder of that year.

I don't think so. Medals tend to have greater detail because they are a commemorative piece with a story to tell. Currency coins are working objects where the main concern is to strike as many coins from a die, in which case too much detail is a hindrance because it fills. You are looking at the solutions to two different problems.

Dies were not usually swapped in pairs. When one die broke it was replaced and production continued. This provides useful chronology for the dies as it allows you to establish the order in which they were used, which in turn may give possible timing information. Stop or no stop, it is unlikely to add anything, particularly as stops fill easily and no stop varieties are frequently not as claimed.

It's difficult to say without seeing in hand, but even if what you have said is true and it is technically a proof, you would still avoid buying it in the knowledge that the majority would not be contentious and so it would be better to wait for a decent one to appear.

I don't save images of Newark pieces as they are too common & difficult to provenance on account of the simple shape and design. Nothing to do with Newark. Does anyone have any knowledge of Huddington Court in Worcestershire beyond what is in Wiki.

No idea re-designs, but pre-war silver plate is decidedly rare due to the quantities melted. No I don't. There is a 9d illustrated on p.26 in Nelson's book, but the picture quality is dire. The coin was in the possession of Liverpool Corporation, so is in the city's museum?

I think for the most part a traveling mint was not the case. Bullion, plate or coin raised in the levies for the purpose of paying the troops would be stored in a safe place - for which read the local castle, and this is where the mint would normally reside. It was certainly the case at Aberystwyth, Worcester and Shrewsbury, though York and Oxford used houses within the city walls. The minimum requirements for a traveling mint would be a supply of hallmarked plate of approximately the correct thickness for a given denomination, shears, scales, a pair of dies and a hammer. Any metal processing, such as alloying would require a furnace and so a more complicated arrangement, not to mention a much more lengthy amount of time required because the metal would have to be rolled to the correct thickness. For this reason, I think coins struck on the hoof would be very much the exception. If attached to a large military contingent, then it would be possible to carry all the tools as part of the logistics, but a temporary mint en route would not necessarily be a practical proposition because the troop movements were usually associated with an opposing force in the vicinity, so risk would come into play. My W/SA sixpence is struck on an irregular flan which is wedge shaped in terms of thickness and has some surface lamination, so could possibly be struck on a piece of cut plate, and there are Newark pieces where the hallmark is still visible, indicating it was again struck on plate. The majority of personal wealth at this time was held in the form of plate, so it was always a major source of silver, either donated by Royalist supporters, or plundered from Parliament's supporters.

You can say what you like. Nothing is cast in stone. I wish others would give an opinion, but reluctance to speak seems to be the order of the day.

I think it is now generally accepted they are genuine, but the location of the mint is the one uncertainty. The combination of a large plume mintmark would be in keeping with the Chester declaration reverse and the Chester unite, which would have been struck around the time of or shortly after the closure of the Oxford parliament in April 1644. The President of Wales had a large plume as his emblem. We know that Rupert left Chester on 20th August 1644 and arrived at Bristol on the 26th, so if the coins were ordered to be struck by Rupert in his capacity as President of Wales, any Bristol related detail such as the declaration should post-date the 26th Aug with a terminal date of 30th November. This is why the documented coining at Hereford in Oct 1644, the arrival of Gerard at Hereford in the same month and the over-wintering of his troops in the Hereford and Monmouth areas is so compelling an explanation. However, it doesn't exclude the possibility that the coins were struck at a few locations over the surrounding area given they were dispersed for the winter months. Yours was found at Goodrich(?), where the castle would be a logical billeting point.

They were considered forgeries until Besly decided they were a genuine issue and published as such in his 1990 book. I can't find any articles that refer to them. Without any proof either way, they were never going to be high on the list of research topics. The design appeared to be too crude to be genuine to early researchers and so languished alongside the reversed Cs mintmark halfcrown, or other contemporary copies, of which there were many for the 2/6 and 1/- denominations. Even now it is only conjecture supported by circumstantial evidence only that they are legitimate. The quality of the engraving is poor, particularly the legend, but then some of the W/SA coins leave a bit to be desired. I think this is a function of making composite letters from a variety of smaller punches. The fact they are struck in silver of the correct fineness is a plus. In my view the arrival at Hereford of Gerard and 3000 men from south west Wales in early October 1644 ties in well with Besly's reference to a Rude the Coyner striking halfcrowns at Hereford on 17th of that month. The Bristol declaration is not an issue because on this date, Rupert was commanding the Royalist forces at Bristol, but was still President of Wales (until 30th Nov) and so in overall charge of the Marches and Wales. The use of a Bristol moneyer would therefore be not unsurprising in my view. It does seem reasonable to concur with Besly on this matter, but as for an article, this paragraph would need to be bulked out a lot to compose even one page.

Maybe it is out of a BU set, or even an early circulation strike. I don't see anything suggesting a proof in those fields, even if the portraits are frosted.

In the late 13th century, most of northern Europe was copying the English long cross penny because it was the de facto standard design, so everyone who could, used a nominally identical design, legends excepted to ensure their currency was accepted. The fineness was frequently not adhered to.

I'm sure that if someone buys or sells multiple items to the same person, then it only counts as one feedback score, so 4000 feedbacks with 3964 from the same person counts as 1, doesn't it? A bit tedious, but within the capabilities of a dedicated shill bidder, or someone anxious to build up their reputation. e.g. You sell 4000 identical items to the same person (yourself) and leave 4000 feedbacks. Sorry I'm a cynic.

Patience. You need to find something matching the ticket info and the Bulletin listing. There is always a chance that the coin in question never made the Bulletin, especially if it was a good example with a ready buyer. The ticket in question has 45/- on it, but that would mean looking for other examples in the market between 1949 and 1959.

I had a shilling with 6/9, but it didn't make a convincing 8. There's nothing to stop the underlying character being an 8, because a mistake by definition can be random.

Could also be 6 over inverted 6 (9).

The stamped numbers were Seaby stock numbers - so in csae of finding one of these you need to start looking in the Bulletin from 1959 onwards.

On 6/27/2018 at 6:24 PM, Rob said: That isn't a Parsons ticket, rather the end buyer of lot 879 (don't have the buyer's name). 1528 will be a stock number looking at the colour of the ink and that on the other side of the ticket. Sorry, thought it was due to the HAP initials. Thought it looked a bit different but these tickets are a bit of a mystery to me. Sorry, just realised I hadn't finished replying to this - only 9 months too late! The ticket above looks like a Seaby ticket as the HAP /54 refers to the Parsons sale in 1954 from which the coin will have come and the style is correct. It was part of a lot of 13, see below where it is the coin at the end of the second row. Unfortunately my Parsons catalogue doesn't have buyers listed, so would have to ask someone, assuming I remember. I couldn't find a 1528 stock number to match the description in the Bulletin from June-Dec 1954, nor in the Circular for 1960.

Said it was somewhere safe - hidden along with Ricardo Paolucci, Italo Vecchio and Sworders. Lot 2266 sold for 660 hammer (10% prem), but I don't have the buyer's name. It was graded EF in the catalogue. The coin is probably the one listed in the December 1958 Circular as 8572, FDC £10/10/- if 210/- refers to the price which would be 10 guineas. TCX price code? T=7, C is 100, X=4? The all in price at Neales was £735.90, plus postage if not collected.

It's all good fun. People take things too personally. I've had several heated discussions with my eldest who is diametrically opposed to me both politically and on Brexit. But at the end of the day, he's my son, I'm his father and we still get on ok in just about every other aspect of life. You have to be given a voice if you disagree, irrespective of where you are coming from. Echo chambers are a bit like a chocolate teapot.

You might have to go easy on the thanks - I haven't found it yet. It's the only Neales catalogue I have, so tends to get moved around a bit rather than being organised in a pile from a certain saleroom. It will be somewhere safe.

Maybe only one or two have been slabbed? Say the other is a VF30 that someone slabbed to satisfy themselves it was genuine, then top pop is a given. I can see someone slabbing it and getting a lesser sum of say AUD50-60 (which is still way OTT), but 300!!?

It's always possible, but the bars frequently fill on the die, so it may not be what it seems.

That's completely wrong. You don't lose over 2g looking like that, and the legend is all over the place.