argentumandcoins

I'm with Peter. If you attend auctions and attempt to view the bulk lots you will see just how much low grade crap there is floating about. The more that gets scrapped the better. I have sold bulk lots with some VF or better GV and GVI silver in as it is worth more as scrap than it is as a coin.

W H Smiths usually stock them.

Perhaps, to link those two posts, the photographer of the second is to be the official photographer of William and Kate's bash? By the way, I own a gilded 1977 crown, even LESS desirable! I just got a beautiful high grade 1907 farthing that some kind soul has gilded. I suppose I could list it on ebay as "Possible gold proof Edward Farthing" and start at £1000?

I've always thought he had an unfortunate name... Probably why, when I was at school, he was called Canute His name was only shortened with the advent of text talk? c u l8r m8

Well done David. The coin had me but I did recognise the oak table top

Gentlemen, I have said it before on more than one occasion.... Spink certainly do not apply the BU status to coins they sell either in auctions, from their site or from the circular. I have had UNC coins from them that were toned and A UNC at best, Freeman 1 Penny that was actually a Freeman 6, a 267 halfpenny that was actually a 266 and a star stops 1845 Crown that was a cinquefoil. Setting a company or individual up to Deity level only leads to becoming an agnostic! As for the selling price

Yes - if the 1926-reverse-1927 is EXACTLY the reverse used for 1927, rather than the 1922 ALMOST reverse, that would make sense. You can't get away with mentioning four varieties for 1926 and not telling more! Apart from Spink, I can find no reference to the third variety. And what is the fourth? The low mintage figures for 1926 mean I don't have that many pennies to look through What am I looking for? perhaps Bernie meant 4 dies? Unless, there's a non-ME obverse with a 1927-style reverse but dated 1926? Another experimental die? The two new 1926 varieties are Freeman obverse 4 with reverse D, same dies as for 1927 pennies, the second is Freeman 4 with completely different reverse, similar to reverse C but with much longer border teeth. I have pictures of these coins but when given them was asked not to share them. Placing value on these coins, including the 1922 rarities is almost impossible, so again, £2000-£5000 ??? When the 1863 die 5 in VG sold for £23,000 ?? My enthusiastic bid was £2750, so who knows!!, without two bidders, the coin could have sold for less than £2000. No Bernie, it would have made at least £50 more than your bid. My father was at the sale and was going to go up to £6000 (I was working that day so could not attend). I think he said it opened just shy of £8000!

I suppose you're all in favour of the disabled being frogmarched back to work, without making pathetic excuses like "Hey, I can't walk" ? They're all workshy cheats and scroungers anyway (I read that in The Daily Mail) Unfortunately Peck they pick up on the ones who are actually workshy cheats and scroungers and forget the genuine cases (quite conveniently or they couldn't sell papers). I know ex miners in my old home town who haven't worked in over 25 years (since the pit closed and they took redundancy) due to "disability" because the regulations were so slack in awarding benefits. I know what I would do with them, I'd build more prisons and then.....

I can see why you say that. In general the coin looks brown, but at certain angles it has an almost silvery hue - which seems a little odd. Put it this way, if somebody asked me what I thought it was made of, copper isn't top of the list. Unfortunately I don't have anything to compare it to. Anybody know what one of these would normally weigh? 2 ounces and the cartwheel penny 1 ounce.

It's as rare as hens teeth. I have only had one and stupidly sold it 6 or so years ago before I started to focus the collection. I have not seen one offered for the past 5 years. If you want to sell/part ex for something send me a PM.

If you can find somebody up to the task Rob.... Peck needs to be re-written. There have been so many discoveries since the rapid expansion of the internet (you can even get it on a phone now apparently) that it is almost totally out of date. In fact in truth I think the only areas that have been kept in order are Bun Pennies courtesy of Michael Gouby and 20th Century bronze and silver by somebody on here! Sadly there is no major work on the earlier milled silver since ESC (Davies only starts with the 1816 recoinage) and as we both know there are oceans of new discoveries in all of the series that are not recorded anywhere. Sadly I have neither time nor ability to mend any of the broken areas!

John, 'a pissed up speeding rugby player on cocaine killed 4 innocent female members of the same family as well as himself.' It would depend on how contrite he was and whether he had ever done anything like it before, and just as important was he ever likely to do it again (e.g. was he addicted to drugs). Ban him from driving for life and make him clean care homes for 3 years - cheaper and much more useful. Having him in the community is something we would have to face up to in the end anyway, as he would eventually be released. The 20 year old you mention had previous and so falls into my category of 'persistence', see earlier in the thread, so I would support a custodial sentence in that case, yes. As has been said before, hard cases make bad law and you are quoting extreme examples here, there are many, many more which are nowhere near as clear cut, and people can and do show an overwhelming level of remorse. There was a case around here only two weeks ago where another 20 year old was speeding and became involved in a crash in which his two young passengers were killed. There will be no point in the judge sending him to prison, because it would have to be in an urn. He hanged himself. And although it's going to sound like Monty Python's Three Yorkshiremen sketch, I was born and brought up in a tough part of London (think Steptoe's yard and you wouldn't be a million miles away), so do know a bit about crime from the receiving end. We are all the prisoner of our experience and our upbringing and I appreciate and respect that you are an ex-policeman, it is a job I would hate to do but seeing a disproportionate level of death and destruction can colour your judgement, being divorced from the immediate experience of related crime is, after all why we have juries. From my point of view, if you can be reasonably certain that an individual is not going to commit a similar crime again (and it wasn't violent), then what is the Earthly reason in spending a fortune sending them to gaol for 5 years, feeding and clothing him, and then sending him back out on the streets as a newly qualified safe-breaker. As I said though, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree... It'd be a bit of a boring world if we all agreed on everything Derek. I'm just off to poish my jackboots and the oak leaves on my iron cross

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. The difference between driving without due care and causing death by dangerous driving is frequently bad luck and the difference in tariff is a £50 fine or 3 years at her majesty's. I know people aren't going to like this, but you can't let the familes of victims dictate the penalty, it would be like letting football supporters referee the game. We've all done stupid things in our lives, just most of them don't turn out to be fatal, and there but for the grace of god go us all. Generally speaking, Britain is at the top end of the European league in terms of the percentage of its population incarcerated in gaol and I suspect it is very unlikely that the likes of Gary Hart would have ended up in prison in any European country other than here. Derek the only people that die from bad luck in fatal collisions that are not caused by medical conditions are the people who are not driving vehicle 1 (vehicle 1 being the offending vehicle). The last fatal I went to was on the A595 at Moota was where a pissed up speeding rugby player on cocaine killed 4 innocent female members of the same family as well as himself. The driver and passenger of another vehicle he hit escaped with minor injuries. Had he lived would you want him in the community? My shift partner dealt with a 20 year old boy who had killed 2 people when he hit them as they turned into a junction. His speed was never proven but he ripped their car in half. He had earlier that year been prosecuted for driving at 78mph in a 30 limit. He had no pre cons and a decent job. Community service for him as well? He got 5 years and it should have been more. I spent 8 years on the roads policing unit and saw a damn sight more bad driving than I did bad luck. If you advocate community sentencing it is apparent to me that the closest you have come to some of the less desirable members of society is watching shameless on channel 4.

I sold one of the pattern or medallets of William and Mary a couple of months ago in auction for about £160 including premium. It was slightly better than fine. I have another on my site in GVF for £200. If you want £40 for it you know where to come

I would go with violence and persistence but otherwise agree with you. There are too many people in prison for non-violent crimes they are never going to repeat (remember the case of, I think it was Gary Hart who accidentally drove a trailer onto a railway line which caused a fatal accident? He was gaoled because he had had insufficient sleep the night before. A case crying out for a community sentence, but instead he got 3 years - a total waste of time and money). I couldn't agree more about Gary Hart, Derek. What happened was an appalling accident. But it was an accident, caused by falling asleep at the wheel. Something that could have happened to anyone. If he'd just driven off the road into a wood, say, nothing more would have happened. But he fell unlucky, as did the train and its passengers. Twist of fate and extraordinarily harsh outcome. Jailing him was wrong IMO. For those who don't remember the case, there's an article about it here Agreed. Intention and motivation count for a hell of a lot. Gary Hart was stupid but no more stupid than the branch line diesel driver who didn't see a red light and caused the Paddington rail crash where 30+ people died. And even though a RailTrack subsidiary (?sub-contractor?) were allegedly responsible for Potters Bar, no-one went to jail over that. Failing to see a red light can be a momentary lapse of concentration. Driving when unfit to do so through impairment of whatever sort is dangerous. Legislation changed post conviction and he could now be tried (if it had just happened) for causing death by driving without due care and attention. In cases like that the end result always determines the charge. If he had driven into a fence or similar he would have been charged with driving without due care. He didn't and people died hence the strongest charges possible were laid. Having attended numerous fatals, removed mangled corpses from scenes, dealt with victims (nobody ever remembers survivors whose lives are shattered), dealt with grieving families and investigated the collision on behalf of Coroner and Judicial service I can say with a certain degree of knowledge that his stupidity deserved the sentence it got. You don't just all of a sudden fall asleep (unless of course you have a medical condition that causes you to). He will have known he was tired, known he was nodding off and decided to continue his journey regardless. I am also sure that if any of you had lost relatives in similar circumstances you would say exacty the same. You may note that they are not called accidents anymore, they are called collisions. The reason being is that an accident is something which is unavoidable....

I like the "in good condition for age" From that we can assume that his graet granny was born in 1858 and she looks awful now

Well the ignorant tw*t has left me 8 nice red cherries of neutral tonight and who knows how many low DSR's which hit my ebay final value fee discount. Contacted ebay via live chat and they couldn't be less interested if I told them the dark side of the moon was on fire. I posted to the imbecile 5 days ago via airmail and 2 of those days were the weekend. If any of you ebay sellers would like his username incase he hits you drop me a PM. I'm off to kick the cat or punch a wall or something!

Really? You surprise me! I thought that was very definitely illegal, as much so as 'ringing'? The auctioneer is merely trying to obtain what he believes to be a fair price for the vendor (nothing at all to do with their huge commision) and he is not forcing the other party to bid. It isn't really any different to the auctioneer opening the bidding at £x and stating he won't take less. Property auctions are notorious for it.

I don't think there is any problem with the postal service here or in Eire on this occasion. I think the problem lies with an impatient imbecile on the Emerald Isle! I wish we had Star Trek technology and I could beam stuff all over in an instant, I also wish I had Angelina Jolie as an au pair, but hey...!

Not wishing to teach my grandmother about eggs etc, etc, but I presume you've banged your bar code into the Royal Mail's excellent online tracker. what does it say ? Passed to overseas postal service, which is as good as it gets with International Signed For. Once it leaves the UK that's it!

This question has come up before,in relation to both buyers and sellers, and IIRC we never arrived at a definitive conclusion. We did mention some sellers who we'd recommend as being reliable and honest, but went no further than that. It might be worth you asking Chris for his opinion on the matter. Obviously it would have to be "members only". Libel laws apply even in a closed group, and you have no way of knowing the person concerned or his friend has not joined this forum, and I think Chris would be liable as the publisher. So I would advise all to stay well clear of such action, even though I'm sympathetic to the need. David Chris would be liable under libel (no pun intended) or guilty of slander (a judge ruled chatroom posts were more akin to slander) if anybody pursued a case to court and won. The onus being on the defendant(s) to prove that what they wrote was true. My original question mentioned an ebay user name and story behind the problem, ie an anonymous moniker and a statement of fact eg; argentumandcoins opened a dispute today with me over £99 order for a crown. Posted via SD and no communication from buyer after being given royal mail tracking number. Paypal have frozen the funds. That is a simple statement of fact and is left open to other users to decide whether or not they block the buyer. Highly unlikely to be pursued to court and impossible case to win under either libel or slander. Has ebay ever been sued or any of it's users over comments that appear on feedback, eg; THIEF LIAR CHEAT, AVOID. Ebay feedback being an open forum? I would understand if Chris objected, but as an ebay seller he is a likely to get ripped off as any of us.

I disagree. I attended my first W&W auction in 1997 when prices were VERY conservative (coins were only just beginning to move out of their long stagnation). Yet even then, estimates were something you took with a large pinch of salt, but there was always the "What if...?" thought at the back of your mind, a kind of hope that took you to the sale "just in case". So I do believe estimates are pitched low deliberately to encourage bidding. Peck I actually work as a consultant for one auction house already on coin cataloguing and I'm telling you that an estimate is supposed to be a realistically achievable price on a lot. That is the accepted norm in auctioneering. If W and W apply "come and buy me's" they are the exception not the norm. We're probably arguing about semantics. When I say "low", I mean the very bottom end of what you're calling "realistically achievable" (i.e. if it's a rainy day, hardly anyone turns up, and there's no collectors in the room). There's no way they will ever be "not conservative". I have won a few, not many, but a few lots in other sales at below bottom estimates. Warwick has not been one of those sales. I don't disagree with you that they deliberately pitch low as a shrewd selling tactic because that may well be the case, all I said was that estimates are supposed to be realistic. I have not won a single lot in 27 bids and some lots I was 3 times their estimate. Every other saleroom in the country would yield at least a 30% return on bids like that, so either the cataloguer is bloody useless (room bidders spot huge money in the lots), they don't give a toss about accurate cataloguing (room bidders win again), their sales attract buyers with more money than knowledge or they take bids off the wall (not unlawful but definitely unethical).

I disagree. I attended my first W&W auction in 1997 when prices were VERY conservative (coins were only just beginning to move out of their long stagnation). Yet even then, estimates were something you took with a large pinch of salt, but there was always the "What if...?" thought at the back of your mind, a kind of hope that took you to the sale "just in case". So I do believe estimates are pitched low deliberately to encourage bidding. Peck I actually work as a consultant for one auction house already on coin cataloguing and I'm telling you that an estimate is supposed to be a realistically achievable price on a lot. That is the accepted norm in auctioneering. If W and W apply "come and buy me's" they are the exception not the norm.

Why does it take 6 weeks to Eire, thats unreal. Generally it takes 10 days before a dispute can start, from date of buying i think, so that seems a very short amount of time to me. Personally i'd block problematic countries, but i have a difficult buyer whom i'm still awaiting response to the 1919KN, still nothing from him and still an open case It shouldn't take more than a week Dave. If it goes to Northern Ireland it's there next day by first class standard, the South takes longer because it's in Europe!!!!!!! Some mainland letters have been delivered years after posting (found behind machines in sorting offices no doubt). The point is that my buyer had his lot posted on 08/02/11 by Signed For airmail and has already opened a dispute. I think it's called taking the p**s, especially as that's £65 of my money nicely locked by paypal in their high interset account where they keep the hundreds of thousands held from other sellers no doubt!

Looks like Gouby J so that would make it 1860-1874