VickySilver

Before this gets dismissed as anecdotal, experience with a particular house (W&W anybody - LOL!!) might generate a bit of circumstantial evidence in that if all winning bids are mysteriously at the maximum over a 20 year span that perhaps, just perhaps, there is a bit of funny business going on...

Yes, and to name names I believe Stack's in New York City has and does do this. Anybody else brave enough to "out" anybody. I even have my suspicions about Heritage as well.

Just a quick note and request. I think it good that Krause be a good catalogue (despite all the detractors), and especially for the 19th and 20th C. versions and note an aqcuaintance will be shortly submitting recommendations to them for the pre-decimal series. Do provide suggestions either through me, or him over on the PCGS boards in the Foreign and Ancient section - 7Jaguars is the poster, complete with rationale(s) and noting that their catalogue is for worldwide usage and not just the UK if that makes any sense. I will note that their section on patterns seems much more complete than any other current source although sadly lacking pictures (IMO), but how prices can be determined for them would seem a bit more than just the usual challenge & the numbering seems to be candidate for improvement. I wish they would use ESC but seems they won't budge on that.

OK, but just looking for how we might be able to give them some simple facts and statistics that might enrich the GB listings in their catalogue. Sometimes even though an exact evaluation is not possible it can give at least a "ballpark" idea of rarity and value. I do appreciate your inputs as I do want to try to help.

Pcture please!!!

Recall that it ended up being about 25%, but has been about 5 years. Should not have let those proof Wreaths go....Oh, well ce la vie!

Yes, CGS is pretty much of an "also ran" in the USA, and not really known or respected because they are not. They do not have the same cache value as PCGS or NGC. And that is not to say they are not relatively conservative graders either. Edge problems are not an issue now as both US TPGs use platic tines within the inserts to hold the coin. IMO, they would not be necessarily that great for hammered coinage, and as Rob says are a bit problematic with some of the earlier milled. I had issue with some of their grading of matte proofs as well, but usually relatively consistent graders of Vicky and up (more recent). I am wondering if lots are only a few hundred pounds each if slabbing is worthwhile though. I should think if you are moving some tens of thousands worth of coins that the house you choose would not bargain a rate for you to fill their sale??I am thinking if it comes to selling some choicer bits that I might not choose Heritage as I have not had all the much luck with Spink. Doubtless there are sellers with much more experience on these boards though. Good luck regardless of which avenue you pursue.

Yes, though this coin worth maybe a tenner, 15 max and NOT in demand particularly.

We would of course need pictures, but Maundy 3d coins were struck during these years. Best guess as they are NOT Maundy however as they are relatively scarce and most trapped in four coin sets.

Maundy 3ds certainly are found later than 1945 and these are silver.

Very little, pretty much bullion only. Maybe 3 pounds pretty much max. I think this may be the wrong forum.

Yes, steer clear of them unless you like the desings and at that pay not a lot above bullion for the silver and gold issues. I must confess that in the original Patina Sale that I bought three of the gold pieces at 500 pounds each, but they have about 40gm. of gold each!!

Well, this may represent (the Sale, that is) an opportunity for those that go. I have often found some esoteric bits of interest but not so in this case. Buon Chance to those bidding!

NO. Not even price independent.

As I understand it, the values listed are essentially mildly low estimate averages and not based on any one sale necessarily but with some correlation also to prices reached for other similar bits. I too think some of the salesroom prices are unrealistically high; this was not always the case as in the mid-90s I bought many a piece from Spink and the SNC at seemed rather fair prices. Spink used to even bargain just a bit on occasion, but only to a tune of maybe 5% in the rare instance they would. Baldwin, with all due respect (and I am a fan of theirs and esp. their famous basement), seem a bit high unless a coin one simply has to have. A difficulty for me is what, for example, a matte proof 1927 florin should go for. This is a prohibitively rare coin which there apparently are no sales auction or otherwise of it for at least 10 years, but demand is not that high either; however, if even two people wanted it that had some budget play, it might go for silly money. If there was only one bidder that day, it might not even reach a reserve or go very low. How then to set, or even attempt a catalogue value? Many say to just leave it blank but apparently users are put off by "Extremely Rare" or other such punts, and they like values listed. With regards to this coin, I like to think I know at least as much as the average joe about rarity and value and yet must give pause. If you stuck me for a quote today, I think I would say 2500 pounds or equivalent; and then the coin might come up for auction next week, and sell for 5k and critics would be hollering about inaccuracy, so no winners. Still, I think it worthwhile and will give it a stab. Here is another non-GB example: the infamous Franklin Mint struck legal tender coins for a number of countries, many of them from the Caribbean and quite a few issued in sets. However, they apparently also struck coins for circulation to the tune of tens of thousands in many instances and these coins did/do see usage. So in 1982 they struck a mule, possibly inadvertently with the obverse of one year and the reverse from the year before ($10 uncirculated coin). This coin did not go in a set and was evidently released through the Central Bank of Belize. Mintage: 3 only. So not a special proof, or silver, or gold, definately a currency bit and even (Sacre bleu!!) analagous to the famous 1893 Jubilee Head Sixpence. Little demand, but almost no supply. Krause has this listed at 25USD. I would have to think such a coin should be listed at 10x that amount even conservatively, but no sales record & what to do. The point is that it is quite difficult to determine value in many instances, and I have not even broached the thought of copper with "Red" , "Full Lustre", etc. What in the world might a reasonable suggestion be with regards to them (ie how about value for a full lustre gem or mint state 1926ME with very light toning)? I think I am beginning to see how it might be difficult to put out a catalogue!

Yes, true about the grading companies and the increase in "value" for a point or two on the numerical scale of presentation, however I think my point about convertibility at time of sale remains true as do those regarding preservation.

This slab controversy will go on and on, and there are many aspects to it: I think one thing to keep on account is that it IS a reversable process. Also, for higher state preserved pieces or "red" copper/bronze it will keep them that way much better than raw. Also, there are now the new generation holders that have three tines of inert plastic to hold the coin so that the edge is well visualized. I think that edge obstruction, although a valid critique of holders, is therefore now not so much of an issue. On more recent milled pieces this is an excellent alternative for storage and on "sight unseen" purchases, and not as clearly beneficial on older or ancient bits, where IMO raw is preferable. Value is also quite critical with slabbing by the more reputable TPGs, and I will quote the following example using an unnamed friend's purchase: he bought a nice looking 1841 half sov that looked good on the 'bay but was not in hand. This went for, by recall, 600 pounds plus shipping. He then had it "slabbed" by NGC which IMO rightly gave him a conservative grade of "65" . Based on auction sales such as Terner and more recent Heritage and Superior Sales in the US, this coin would have a very good shot at 2,000 pounds. Now it is the same coin, but has an extra "cache" of convertability in that the buyer would have a somewhat better idea of what the coin actually IS in terms of preservation, strike and surfaces. Now some of the extra value may be in venue, but at these same venues slabbed pieces seem to consistently bring higher prices so I would argue it is the slab that has assisted. What the ultimate buyer then does with the slab after purchase is then his/her perogative... Well, just a few more thoughts...

You know I think there are coins so tucked away that they have become forgotten (ie I can think of the 1952E "other" shilling mentioned in Norweb or its possible 1952S mate, or even an unloved but incredibly rare 1930 VIP Record proof halfcrown of which only one is in private hands). I for one, would like to see pictures or word of them now and again...Perhaps there is an happy medium to exposure?

Well, acid dips is certainly one way....

Hi, Please post weight in grammes and also measure the diameter of the coin. thanks.

Which is certainly another factor. As stated Heritage may even on more valuable bits charge you (ie credit you) a -[minus] 5% so that a lot that sells for 1000 USD will get you 1050 minus handling.... The type of collection and your location are really tantamount to making such a decision. An example I can think of is a PCGS proof66 Gothic Crown may go for 30-40,000 or more USD when slabbed and sold by Heritage but only bring 8-10k Pounds when sold in the UK - unless American bidders can be enticed to participate!

I believe it is the Maundy 3d to which they refer, and this is the identical design to the currency issues and is prooflike. The line between proof and prooflike is rather tenuous with these small bits and IMO best not to get caught up in the semantics. Also, occasionally the Maundy come more satin like than with mirror like surfaces and with varying amounts of cameo to the devices on the more prooflike specimens. Hope that helps...

aF agreed and pretty scarce as the grade goes to higher levels... This is the kind of coin that is tending to languish a bit in the current market as grade/preservation state take predominance.

Yes, EF a bit soft in strike some rub to brow and rev. was commented on, but looks like some of original lustre still present in areas... Not a clue otherwise about these Indian pieces; the coin does say "India" after all.

Well there are so many variables as had been mentioned. It is possible they may sell better in the US of A and that a firm such as Heritage may not even charge you a sellers comission or may pay you 105%!!!This is not made up and quite true. Also, one point that has not been mentioned is the concept of critical mass. If you have a number of 1k+ coins, if there are enough they may be perceived as a major collection and IMO possibly bring more money as there could be a tendency to bring more buyers; there also may be some lose of provenance if they are sold but a few at a time. If sold in the USA, definately slab but if they are already slabbed and you are determined to sell them in London leave them in the slab as is done many times by Baldwin or St. James and to some degree DNW and Spink. I have never tried to negotiate seller fees in London so maybe others could pitch in....