VickySilver

Recently, a 1911 Five Pounds Proof coin sold for 99,000 USD and there has been a bit of a discussion albeit with few participants over on CoinTalk. I almost put this up in the TPG discussion but it does apply more generally to the phenomenon over the last five or so years whereby we have seen the value of proof 5 sov. coins of the 1887-1937 vintage seemingly go through the roof, so to speak. Personally, I don't particularly care for this development, but here it is.I can not help but imagine that such prices will encourage more such pieces to be sent into the TPGs and put up for sale and I don't blame the sellers as I would do the same despite being a terminal collector in all senses of the term....I will use iPhone to post the citation to follow:

And me as well. If this was priced as GVF, I would be a buyer for sure even though I don't generally go for the Younghead crowns & have made do with a cleaned AU 1847 only - which I would trade in a heartbeat. These are frequently not struck as well as we might like; I have elsewhere commented on the issue with incomplete strike and the problems of such large flans. The marks across the cheek and neck take it down IMO to the EF status but remind me of those found on Morgan dollars that were stored in bags with a thousand companions for many years and suffered such. The actual wear is not so bad, and of course magnified by the enlarged format.

Ok, but really which would you rather have - a top 1926ME with good lustre and strike or a "dotty"? Think I gave away my opinion on that last bit, LOL.

I think you might be right there, combined with a bit of pulling something out of the air....Please don't let those prices fool you. On occasion foreign used to go for a bit low but even that seems to be the rare case nowadays.

True, but plenty of lustre there in and about the letters and into the fields. Looks a soft strike to me, esp. as on the chest and gown area with a bit of rub on knee and biceps IMO. I would think that is in the AU55 range, possibly 58 - the reason I say the later is that I have noticed than when not fully stuck that the "high points" are of metal that seem to oxidize more readily making pictures look not as good as in-hand. Just vaguely in analogous fashion, we sometimes see even worse on the high obverse points of George V silver (I know a different metal) such as the cheek, hair and upper ear on the Wreath and Jub. crowns...

135 pounds for this unslabbed 1853 PT normal 5 from Goldberg’s. Looks better in hand, but if sent to TPG would prob only go 64 Brown The luster not captured . Point is, why submit? Maybe it would sell for multiples

Indeed, and my point is they ARE. Please note how the defect disappears into the lettering in the areas indicated and not THROUGH the lettering. If need be, then the specifics are within the valley of the "V" and and that on either side of the "V" truncation, more could be pointed out....

Here is mine:

Partially yes. The other mentioned locations mitigate against that, but also areas not fully struck up have different crystalline structure I am told and oxidize variably which can give a different appearance to the surrounding metal. Interestingly it also appears that planchets were not prepared very well and frequently were rather marked by scratches, poor finish even, and so when an area is not fully struck up, pre-strike planchet issues will remain and sometimes appear as "wear" to the coin when it appears it may not always be. An area famous for that is on the obverse cheek of George on your nomen Wreath. It took a long time to figure this out as marks here can be pre or post strike (or combos of the two). The ear on the OP coin fortunately does show this malady however, and I mentioned as a worse case scenario - I wonder what other series are affected in this manner as I have not seen a lot of discussion about this. I have a decent collection of pattern "MODEL" coins of the 20th century that demonstrate some of these planchet issues even on coins of specimen finish, and possibly could publish if I had more time.....

May I enter the fray as the loyal opposition? This coin has a very good strike both obverse and reverse. The rims show some sign of "bag handling" as do a few of the marks on the obverse - however, some of the apparent marks on the obverse are not. What do I mean? Look at the lines in and around the "V" in George's title; these look to be die scratches. There are some marks in the field to the left of George, but not severe. The only area that concerns me on the obverse is the field between George's bust and the "E" in the legend portion of "REX". G's cheek, nose, brow and beard excellent. IMO the area superior-most on his ear is simply not struck up all the way. Reverse as expected rather nice... Do post your pieces of 1923 superior to this at 75 quid. I will try to do so later.

Buried somewhere, will take a look in the AM if possible.

Jaggy, you are most admirable in your pursuit of those sixpences. I have lost a bit of edge what with the economy and the staggering prices, even in late milled predecimal. Every now and then if something is really special I will put us on budget and pray and can get a specimen at only crazy and not insane prices... I remember not long ago that the 1911 matte proof Halfcrown came up for sale and went to something like 8k pounds plus the juice - that was just too much.

Well, Rob guess I didn't answer the question too well: advertising not all that great and hard catalogues were delayed by the horrific mail over here - which used to be very good - and in fact I just got the group auction catalogue by Superior et al TODAY! I do not know any person that actually won a coin, and mercifully not too many I would have been after n any case. I think sales such as this really push collectors into the hole - I think soon there will likely be very few collectors that will attempt any sort of comprehensiveness. It is just now too damn expensive even in areas that used to be cheap (20th C. pre-decimal silver for one !). Just how many high pound/dollar coins can one afford to hold?

Hmmm, that does ring a bell - perhaps it was in a sale a while ago? Does this all mean the you have the coin? I must say they did come up with some concoctions in this era, what with off-metal strikes and oddities - I have a florin struck with the security edge which by recall is from edges for Mauritius and Hong Kong, maybe some of the African colonial series (?).

Nope. I only knew because of auction listings on sixbid.com as well as for some reason following Spink - I occasionally buy for them. But Jaggy may not be the semi-recluse that I am. With no actual NYINC, there wasn't the sort of floor bidding there would have been in normal years and to my knowledge the sale was not "pumped up". I have no idea who the buyers or dealers were that were pushing prices, Atlas in some years was held to blame by me but then it takes two or more to push numbers and the former mainly was buying at not so inflationary prices and them pushing them up considerably.

Not in Bull as I am sure you checked already. I don' t know what I did with my 2000 Coincraft Catalogue.

I think more of what I was getting at is the coins that may have been 500 to 1000 pounds 10 years ago may go for 5, 10 or 20x that amount now. And so maybe that is the new reality, but leaving many of old-time collectors out possibly. On the other hand, let us not be surprised if there is a setting in the market either. Also I saw with several lots an alarming trend to give more value to the slabbed coins and that even amongst slabbed coins there would be a large jump - USA style - in the price gap for a one point TPG grade difference (or so it seemed).

I wonder if we are getting priced out of our own areas? Did you see the 1685 plumes shilling went for 60k?

I was shocked to see some of the Pywell-Phillips coins going for double estimate - not all but MANY had been cleaned, and not too pleasantly. One example was the cleaned 1905 Halfcrown, and I believe the 1893 Jub. sixpence (can't remember for sure on that one). Also, the Churchill specimen crown went for 9500 - how on Earth did that rate a "66"? Also the prices these pieces went for really seemed to mirror the American situation - that top coins are now basically out of reach for the "commoner".

Yikes, check the prices! Just shocking IMO, and not just Gold proofs, etc. but includes silver coins. Will be interested to see what the 1850 shilling goes for in the next 5-10 minutes...

Wow, I will take a look, but don't recall this one....

Ah, hopefully to those that browse this. I have TWO already and really need to relax on the buying doubles and TRIPLES..... Please do PM me immediately if you get wind of either the Franklin Mint 1984 specimen (not proof) set of Jamaica, and for that matter 1984 specimen sets of Barbados and Trinidad

Looks PMD, possible liquid contact and then increased oxidation there - maybe the coin was in or had something spilled on the obverse.

I suppose olive oil with cotton bud GENTLE application would be relatively safe, with the residual oil removed with liberal rinse and soft detergent with more water irrigation and tamp dry with the high nap white cotton towel.... Don't blame you for being a bit nervous. Good score on that coin, and one I'd be happy to own.

I don't think a lot of spares out there!