VickySilver

I skipped the whole business even though there were some lots of interest.......

I will check mine later today for comparison Richard, just to see if it is the same. Many thanks!

Richard, can you post a picture of your matte farthing for a comparo?

Other than the penny, please elucidate and especially with regards to the crown. My concern is that these markers are not widely recognized and certainly I would not want to see any of these markers on non-"VIP" specimens; so to postulate such it would not be enough to see a marker on a purported "VIP" specimen and not on another non-such, as there will be natural die variability & there would have to be an extended study that demonstrated applicability over numerous specimens. The reason that I threw a bit of shade is that with regards to crowns at least, is if the Royal Mint does not recognize differences and from my numerous conversations with Steve Hill amongst others that there are not clear differences. So that there is a spectrum or continuity in what is a proof. BTW, for a fact Bull is wrong with regards to his artificial designations of proof and his "VIP proof" coins of non-standard years. The use of "VIP" has many issues and I do not necessarily agree on its usage on technical terms. BTW, please see my original response to the OP....

Hmmm, I kind of doubt your acquaintance's story. The RM is not aware, even if they are not the end-all. I rather fancy myself to have some knowledge of 20th C proof coins and am not aware of any such "markers".

Yes, I agree, and about the OP coin as well. You can find another, slabbed or not, that will be nicer. Good.

I have a number of MODEL obverse and reverse patterns of the 1920-37 era, and the MODEL side show VERY POOR planchet prep, and this on matte proof presentation pieces. I may have to dig but will have a look at the non-matte silver proofs possibly later today. LOL, John - possibly a bit unfair to lump the OP coin with your example....I still don't see a lot to object to technically, the worst bit IMO may be an horizontal scratch at the right base of neck.

At first I was inclined to agree but have looked at this piece some more. It actually might be a 66, and here's why: - the striations about the bust in the field are likely hairlines from die prep - the apparent abrasions in around hair, neck, brow, cheekbone which used to bother me with these later silver larger denominations florin, HC, and crown are actually in many instances planchet defects that were not fully struck out (planchets/flans are usually only very crudely finished and replete with many marks, abrasions, gouges, etc.) . There was an excellent recent writeup of this, but sadly I can not remember where it was & then I got to thinking and appreciate the veracity of it. - technical grade may well be a "66" However, the aesthetics are not there IMO for these or even other reasons, and so the coin ought to be relegated down a bit by "market grading".

There is what appears on the photo to me at least a bit of haze, almost a green tinge (but not as bad as early very), almost like a light PVC which is oil based. I have sometimes seen this on copper that seemed to have hand or finger oils on them (lightly). If present, and I don't have this coin in hand, the metallic surface but NOT the natural oxidation is preserved but the oil removed with the mentioned technique.

Love those 26MEs...Dare I say that from the photo, a quick acetone treatment might get rid of some of the superficial schmutz - almost a bit of light PVC/finger oil, or??

IMO that verdigris has attacked well into the coin & if successful removal were somehow managed that there would be a lunar sized divot on coin service.

Have to use care, some very nice sans slab and others not so much. Same for slabs as pictures not always showing how it looks in hand...

Very diplomatic on the commentary there Paddy. I concur, please do look at other commentary on the dealer mentioned.

Hmm, that last bit made it sound as though you might be looking for the silver as people not lining up for dross. Here's to hoping there are some nice bits hidden in there...

Yours a good buy, but I find the quality and price of this date to be all over. The TPGs will sometimes give technical grades because there is not wear and perhaps good lustre but not be well struck and overall not attractive. Pick and choose carefully...

One of Only Two Known Surviving 1945 Silver Threepence Coins Surfaces Posted on 12/10/2019 The silver coin, the “rarest British circulating coin in 200 years,” was one of 371,000 minted that year, all of which were supposed to have been destroyed. The “rarest British circulating coin in 200 years” has been certified as genuine by Numismatic Guaranty Corporation® (NGC®), the world’s largest third-party certification, grading and encapsulation service for rare and collectible coins. The tiny silver coin — only the second known example — was not discovered in a buried hoard. The 1945 Silver Threepence was found in an ordinary Whitman folder, the type of cardboard booklet that young coin enthusiasts have filled with coin collections since the 1930s. This 1945 Great Britain Silver King George VI 3 Pence was authenticated and graded NGC MS 63 by the third-party grading service Numismatic Guaranty Corporation. It is scheduled to be auctioned in March 2020 with an estimate of £15,000 to £25,000 (about $20,000 to $30,000 USD). Click images to enlarge. The coin had been removed from the Whitman folder and placed in a similarly humble plastic envelope, or flip, when it was brought to Baldwin’s of St. James’s, managing director Stephen Fenton said. But it caused an immediate sensation even so. “It was a coin I’d looked for for 50 years,” Fenton said. “I regard this as the rarest British circulating coin for 200 years. “You see lots of rare coins, but this is something I’ve always hoped to see someday. It’s amazing proof that the rarest coins can emerge from the most humble of places.” Though the Nazis showered London with V-2 rockets in 1945, it was a more mundane reason that led to the 1945 Silver Threepence coin becoming almost extinct. The Silver Threepence had become unpopular because it was very small — a diameter of 16 mm (six-tenths of an inch) and a weight of 1.4 grams (five-hundredths of an ounce). A bigger, heavier, 12-sided nickel-brass threepence had been introduced in 1937 and was being minted every year. The King George VI Silver Threepence was minted from 1937 to 1945, with a peak production of almost 8 million annually in 1940 and in 1941. But the wartime issues of 1942-45 all were shipped to the British West Indies. And the output of the coin’s final year of 371,000 — apparently deemed redundant because of public acceptance of the 12-sided nickel-brass coin — was ordered to be melted down, its silver used in other mint products. Every 1945 Silver Threepence was supposed to have been reduced to ingots, their inscriptions and profile of the king on the obverse and a St. George’s cross over a Tudor rose on the reverse, destroyed. But at least two coins escaped the crucible, and more of them might be sitting in jars or Whitman folders, waiting to be recognized for the rarities they are. One survivor came up for auction in April 1970 at a Glendining & Co. of London sale. Its condition was described in the catalog as About Very Fine and it realized £260 (about £4,000 pounds in today’s money). Its buyer is unknown, and the coin has not resurfaced publicly since. The newly found coin was certified by NGC and graded MS 63 on the 70-point Sheldon Scale. The condition of the coin found earlier is thought to grade a much lower 20 to 35 on the scale. “I had no doubt that this coin was genuine,” Fenton said. “But NGC certification will ensure that everyone has the same confidence.” The new example is being offered at a Baldwin’s of St. James’s auction scheduled for March 2020, with an estimate of £15,000 to £25,000 ($20,000 to $30,000 USD), Fenton said. How did it survive? The owners, who Fenton declined to name, said they received the Whitman folder containing the coin from a relative who worked at the Royal Mint. For more information about Baldwin’s of St. James’s, go to bsjauctions.com/ Viewing at %

Hmm, I don't find the eBay bargains or even the quality that I did some years ago. But this thread came off the rails IMO. The question is: how, if at all, is the current virus situation going to affect the coin market? And in fact, my guess is that there is a bit of the ostrich head in the sand bit until the reality sets in. In other words, the tale is yet to be told but without being a stick in the mud, this IS going to have affect eventually and the question is when?

Well, the US has reported 26 million unemployed adults, and the numbers may be higher....I think this is a marker of economic pressure that will start to put negative pressure on at least the bottom to middle ground in the collector markets, including coins. This economy reminds me of a modern ship hitting a rock or hit by a torpedo - the compartments affected are completely flooded out, but containment doors hold even the compartments adjacent dry and unaffected until pressure builds and blows through a door, and then that compartment is flooded, etc. Eventually the ship begins to list and even sink....Hopefully the economy does not go the latter.

But when people lose the wherewithall to purchase things like coins, and especially residential space prices will come down because demand at unsustainable levels will fall away = if money is not there in peoples' hands to buy, there will be a slump in demand of whatever good there may be at higher price points.

Not only that, and the "decider" in my book are the swirling lines covering fields and Vick on the obverse with an unnatural shininess that has since lightly toned over on both the fields and device, especially inside the lettering - this is the type of thing seen with a wipe by a cloth. This is also seen to a lesser extent on the reverse as well. Shininess or softness to the lions is something to look for but I have seen numerous examples where the lions' snouts have been softly struck - so both are possible, soft strike and/or wear. In the States, they used to call these coins "sliders", GEF (or AU) coins that had been wiped or lightly cleaned. In all likelihood and despite this a pleasant -appearing coin the TPGs would reject for cleaning.

I really like the obverse strike and also think the edge marks are quite tolerable, don't know if you want to try your hand at judicious acetone on the black marks. I know someone that braved Jeweluster diluted dip on a matte proof G6 crown - yikes! But it came out quite well.

That is probably fair - the 63. Very hard to see if there are hairlines but the coin looks original and uncleaned, so might even reach a 64.

I think they might find that results will be improved by going on-line. They have made me cringe at times, and have had similar experiences although I've had a few winners.

I will chime in with an "agree" as well. The rim seems to indicate that prior to the cleaning that it may have been very close to uncirculated. I always try to appreciate this characteristic also on many coins & esp. on eBay, etc.

This is similar to the design on the mint-issued silver 1977 Queen's commem medal - very large in format.....