VickySilver

He has been involved in grading Brit rarities and has been the main opinion. I don't know what his technical title was or is.

Yes, I agree with that. PCGS is a bit on the stick as David Hall, a principle in the firm, also sells PCGS coins though they are US coins. No connection to Brit coins that I am aware of. One of the main graders at PCGS is/was (I do not have confirmation of his current status) Karl Stephens. I know that they seem to indicate that up to three graders look at a particular coin there but am unaware of any other graders.

Well, they are but another source. I think customer service has always been good to me, the pictures good, very rapid dispersement of Lots won. However, rarities in their sales when slabbed do tend to bring big number prices - great for the seller, intimidating for the buyer. Quite honestly I think I would consider them to sell my better pieces should the day come. As dear Rob has said before: "know your coins" (or something to that effect). Very, very occasionally they have a decent bit at a decent price in my series but I like looking at their pieces in any case. I guess just a bit frustrated at what is happening to aspects of the market.

Was that a matte? Well, possibly not if there were two as that would be an unusual occasion. Jaggy, do post pictures!

I certainly pray that is true, tough sledding for the nearer term in many series...

Rob, I always appreciate your input and also that you are rightly confident in your grading but perhaps there are other facets to this whole thing. As Ex- has said, not all collectors are as advanced or confident in their grading capability. So they may have a different perspective than you or I when it comes to a slabbed TPG product. Perhaps even more important, if your coin were up for sale would you not want it to fetch the best price possible? And what of your heirs should they choose to dispose of your holdings? And nowadays, one just might have to consider an elephant in the room - TPGs such as PCGS and a sale through Heritage, I would think? I do agree that some of the micro-varieties are missed by these people, and sometimes they don't seem to know the difference between hairlines and die polish, but yet they do lend themselves to convertibility . Also, I need not remind you of the [probably] worse subjective grading demonstrated by some old fashioned dealers that even advertise prominently in Coin News (how about a certain J.W. as an example?).

The current Ford GT40 not a slouch either! I agree that the 100 point scale "innovation" did isolate CGS to some degree. Won't throw ICCS into the mix as that Canadian firm has not IMO graded a critical mass of coins. In former times, and I have a couple of coins in their holders (not slabs), they were fairly conservative in their allotted grades. I agree with Rob's point that when a named provenance such as Newman is used, that the grading may be a bit slack and that also the price a bit "fancy" for that slackened grade as well. Caveat emptor!

And many of us must admit that we were frankly spoiled by the market from early '90s until about 3-4 years ago. I will confess to inhaling about everything that was pre decimal later milled. Now I try to be VERY selective, and just go for the odd rarity. I am really perplexed by who is participating (other than the oft-maligned "investors") in auction sales of the George 4, William 4, and even Victoria gold proofs. As I had mentioned in an earlier post, other similar coins such as the 1831 proof crown may by numbers be scarce but continually available - Heritage alone have had TEN on sale since 2010. Or those infernal Gothic Crowns fetching 20 and 30k quid! And for God's sake, who was buying all those Newman bits in excess of 10k. I guess there must be more collectors of Swedish coins than at least I am aware of... So maybe the challenge is to find good coins in the current market?

I like to call these "created rarities", and are quite contrived which on some US chat boards they have NO problem with. Amazing!

Quite honestly these auctions put a bit of fear into me. Will they set new trends in prices (even if they are a bit higher)? Will normal, well kind of normal, collectors be priced out of decent pieces? Will these continued bombardments on prices create a sucking vortex of upward spiraling prices, or at least contribute to them? I was able recently to obtain a very nice, and best I've 1847/6 groat for a reasonable price. Glad that EPN did not get a hold of it...

Uhh, I think there may only be one 1933 that would even be remotely available so would have to rate it similarly to the 1954 penny.

Ah, yes, good work on this one AC. I pretty much have left the copper proofs alone, the same would not have been so a couple years ago...There was quite a lineup of Bun proofs, maybe as many as I've seen. There has really been quite a lot on sale this January! At these prices, I think at least a few of us need to really cone down our collecting focus.

Thanks, Rob. I even received hard copy of the catalogue but it was no better. For some reason I am getting a backlog of 1871s that are very nice but just not quite there. For the '69 to go for that there must have been (a) problem(s) IMO... Was peripherally interested in the 1962 proof as well but sometimes one has to play a bit conservative as I was saying.

Not quite on board with BRG's acetic acid bit, as IMO is usually a CuCl2 oxidation if I remember chemistry from 30 years ago! And Coinery you are right in that I suppose verd has to start somewhere. Maybe we are talking probability, and I certainly did not look at the piece but it does have the appearance of a few other bits I have seen. I sure would be tempted to try the acetone very briefly and maybe a mild detergent with very liberal wash and the obligatory white cotton tamp down sans "the rub". Rob, always amazed by the plethora of coins you have and show...

Had to hold back with limited funds of late... How did the 1869 and 1871 look, and how did they fare?

I think BRG is correct in that colouration is indeed a form of oxidation, but tends to be stable unless subjected to further heat & humidity - hopefully the slab will help at leas a bit in that regard. Verdigris is particularly worrisome when the reaction begins to proliferate - not just colour, but an appearance of bubbling which is microscopic at first. I don't see macroscopic on this, and he reports on his microscopic.Please keep in mind his blowup is quite large as well.

Wow, beautiful halfpence there. Really captures the look of the coin and reasonably well struck. I think it looks better that a mostly "red" piece. Those look to be IMO stable green mini-spots on reverse of copper chloride, not likely verd candidates and not PVC.

Darn, I was hoping the recipient got a better prize! Well, it is Saturday night after all....

No, they are just seemingly always available. There is two in one of the Sales on about now in Nuevo Yorke (ha ha, New York). In the last 5 years I have probably seen at least 6- 8 sales. The 1825 and 1826 proofs on up through gold are similarly available now and nearly always. OVERRATED! Another famous example is the 1913 US Five Cents Liberty Head with a mintage of FIVE, and only three in private hands. Never mind these three have been making the rounds and been on sale at least 4 times in the same number of years.

Well certainly better than the 1887-93 5 sovs going for 25-40k!!! I think we might perhaps agree that a magnificent '05 has a bit on the lowly '51 penny?? It really brings to point this bit I do not understand about today's apparent market: how is an 1823 2 sov, or the seemingly endless supply of W4 and G4 patterns and proofs able to hold their value. They may be ??scarce but seemingly are offered and so many venues and so often that they are certainly not difficult to come by if you have the money. Or for that matter, the numbers of Cromwell bits or Charles II broads and multi-broads? Or the above-mentioned Gothic Crowns? How about the 1831 Crown in proof at 10-12k quid? IMO lunacy of an order far worse than the '05 2/6 are these bits....

Shhhh, don't give away my secrets...LOL...When not collecting late milled, I'm in it. The currency strikes are scarcer in Unc. than the VIP record proofs of off years (like the the 1962 BCT two cents).

Hate to know their state of preservation though! I was in West Africa some time ago and the coins in circulation abyssmal...

Ah yes, but demand is there! If those Gothics can go for USD 50k in their plentitude (!), then demand can drive the '05 up. Econ 1 pounded those supply-demand curves into my head...

Actually, it was some earlier but later date Young Head shillings going for that money... The 1878 Dritanniar sixpences were all die #6 and it has been stated many times that the bulk, if not all were sent to the newly acquired colony of Cyprus where they endured generally quite a bit of wear there evidently. The nicest specimens tend to be in the VF range & the few at the higher levels obviously did not circulate. It is not known, but only speculated that these were specimens saved out and did not make the voyage.

The greatest was one sold by Spink in their late, lamented SNC about 4 years ago for 800 pounds and ultimately graded MS64 - and deservedly so. Love the Drittaniar and its history even more as I lived in Cyprus for a bit some years ago.... Funny thing is that I don't think an MS64 would go for big money and would have to be a "66" or so to get crazy... I do recall the truly graded MS66 1889 small head shilling going for USD 1900 last year, and it sold for basically what the common shillings in similar grade sold for!