VickySilver

Just thought I would resurrect this thread. I DO like this denomination, but have had absolutely no success in confirming the 1854 & am inclined to think it does not exist after conversations with many milled predecimal experts. Interesting that the 1862 half sov evidently went unnoticed until 1979...Kind of like some of the new species that show up now and then in the natural world (oh please don't mention the "Megalodon" that sank the ship off South Africa in April of this year!).

Couple of bits (and bobs)....OK, well quarters and shillings for you numismatic types...LOL

I think I would go EF, or gVF for the weasels...Still lustre in the protected areas, and not a lot of wear.

Wow, and all this time I've been shopping in the wrong place for matte proofs! Could have saved a bundle too, darn... Hey, its got to be legit, 100% rating to boot.

Yes, I have seen the annual reports, but if we use the example of the 1839 proofs being struck in later years it seems we have no accounting. Was such done with the later 1887 and 1893s? Not sure if I have seen the answer to that. Interesting bit about die consumption on the gold as well..

Rick Tomaska has written some about proof dies in the American series of Franklin halves but also with regards to Morgan dollars and says essentially that the "cameo effect" may be lost with as few as 10 strikes of the die. He has said very little changed from the late 19th Century. Another fellow with some firsthand knowledge is Daniel Carr, who managed to purchase a slightly older Denver Mint press and now uses it to strike medals, overstrikes, etc. in matte, ordinary currency and proof format. He is quite a nice fellow IMO and may be able to share some information, at least as it applies to somewhat later technology - although I would imagine much may apply to later 19th C. technology. I am not as excited by specific technology or microvarieties but do find in interesting that old dies would be pulled up and reused - the 1839s were an extreme example. I also wonder how accurate minting statistics, even with proofs might actually be. Where, for example did they come up with the figures for 1887 and 1893? Let alone, off years of record proofs!

Hi Shagreen, Not quite sure if I am following you on the last post. My opinion would be that the second specimen is an earlier strike as the cameo effect is still demonstrated. My understanding is that it is lost with subsequent strikes as the acid etched device is gradually micro worn ..

I second Azda on the obverse picture - I think it is hiding some unfortunate details on the obverse - rub??, etc... The edge on this bit looks a lot better than our other choices and think I could go for slightly mishandled proof. The others are thumbs down on edge characteristics.

Not proof.These come with proof like strikes very frequently.

At 6500 quid plus the juice! I do know these quite well, and they are quite rare, albeit more common than the R7 listed in ESC. I would rate them about as follows (all outside museums) 1926 Pattern Peace Crown 3-4 1926 Pattern Wreath 2-3 1927 3-4 likely 1937 3-4 likely 1951 6-8 1953 6-8 1965 (satin) 8-10 Actually I rather like the 1927 and 1937 mattes and find them rather handsome!

Yes, Nick that is exactly mine as well..

Yes a picture would be essential and would "up the pike" of my interests as well.

Nice picture! Mine has a distinct dot just to the clockwise of that of the first over struck "I"

The usual caveats about coin in hand not withstanding - the coin is simply not a proof and can't see how except in the most ignorant of circumstances that a well-respected TPG slabber would certify it as such. I would gladly buya nice example of the 1963 in proof for about that amount. This coin I would not buy for a quid.

Yikes, if he WAS a respected dealer, s/he lost points on this NON-proof. P-L-E-A-S-E!!!!!!

A bit of an update: there are confirmed instances of both the 1997 and 1999 sets, as I have had a communication with an individual who has one of the latter and sent pictures (the crown is a millennium ), and referred pictures of 1997 set with a World Wildlife Crown. Has anybody heard of a Royal Mint Collector's Bulletin?

Let me start by saying I have not verified this story. However it does ring a bit scary in the current paranoid environment, combining those "evil" Chinese AND the TPGs! What? Well, I was just yesterday at the Baltimore show (rather small Summer version), and heard a snippet: "Have you heard the latest about the PCGS office in China?" The unnamed dealer proceeded to outline what may be the latest scam. Evidently one of the Chinese graders has been buying [at least] Fat Man Dollars graded MS64, and then having friends submit them whereupon he delivers out "66" and "67" grades... I tried to listen in for more details without appearing to be the nosey that I was, and could only gather that the grader had some sort of nickname with "dragon" in it... OK, I apologise for shameless gossip, but even as a sometime supporter of the TPG concept was a bit disturbed by this - although, not all that surprised and thankful that at least if true that it was not more counterfeits being passed off. All, of which yet again confirms that the buyer should buy the coin first, not the labelled number slab...

I do NOT trust the TPGs when they say they have three graders or seven or whatever...

Don't think that one will quite reach the Proof Cameo 67 designation...

Aesthetics a bit hard to judge between that last coin and the OP coin, but 5500 does seem a relative "bargain". IMO, these Gothics are ballistic on prices and as much as I like Vicky Silver (ha ha), I have so far passed and been contented with the florins. Think I would take a '51 florin before either of those heaps of --- -- -- ---.

The OP coin? I am pretty sure it would hold at 50k in the US given the record of some of the other 66 bits. BTW, some years (3 or 4 ) ago, I saw a pristine S65 Mercedes which listed two years previously at 120k go down to 45k!

With all due respect to Chris, this is just way to high a price IMO. Will see if there are two suckers to fight it out. I think the price was probably correct in Australia in terms of value. As was brought out, I would be quite nervous for the future of the Obv. model given that oxidation/rot has now set in. This is the vintage and type of coin I love but it should not reach the value of silver versions. LCA had the matte proof 1951 G6 crown go for 6.5k, and I think that is likely a reasonable value - though certainly higher than what this type of material has gone for previously... Still, interesting to see where the price goes on these bits.

Nope, strange things do happen. I wonder on the shillings how in person the 1854 & the 1882 (which was in a lot including '83 and '84) looked? The '54 went for 2500! Still, a number of his bits looked to be cleaned. Was this the case? And of course, I was wondering how the 1863 florin looked. How greatly I miss mine spirited away by my ex-wife when she left in 2008 - definately is/was mint. I have a proof gotten from Spink only 8 or so years ago for 1250..

Yes, Steve Hill was at Spink and left for Baldwin about 6 (or so) years ago. He is the milled man, and as knowledgeable as any I know of this series (BTW this along with the change of regime was IMO a lot of the reason behind the demise of Spink) and catalogues for both Baldwin and St. James. PM me if you like for more details. Steve Fenton is the principle behind SJ and is VERY business oriented; Steve is not IMO a part of this. Baldwin is owned by another entity, and is controlled by several others, Ian (sp?) and Noble Investments. Their general approach is what determines toward business. And also IMO, leaves them a bit slow and stodgy. I'm on the fence just a bit, and appreciates Rob's words though he might come from a different perspective. I tend to go with the feeling that SJ would be the best venue for a "bigger" coin, say 2k pounds or above. I think they have been known to negotiate terms for perhaps as little as 0% comm. to seller. London Coins seems to have a big audience for mid-line coins 150 up to 1 or 2k, but I have known DNW since they were reformulated & think Chris at the top is quite responsive; the only thing is I can not speak from experience as to what can be negotiated on fees. The others I don't think I would fool with. So if what I gather about your coins is the case (with many of them mid- coins)it was me I would first check out what could be arranged with Chris in terms of seller fees. Don't just take what they have written out. As one final possibility - if you think you have a set that could be presented by Colin Cooke (Neil) in one of those special catalogues. I also do not know his terms but found him quite affable. I would not post what actual details you work out with whomever mainly because I think it is not the proper thing to do but would respond again to any PMs.

Colin, not to poison you but I have sold a couple through Spink a couple of times and they were just over a thousand each. I was under the impression (from them) that they would be in the Coinex sale but instead they bumped them into the November sale.Ultimately I felt this cost me, but also the overhead seemed excessive. Suffice to say any future sales will not be through them. I must admit that I would likely go to Baldwin as well, not to mention that Steve there is a consumate professional.