VickySilver

Honestly Azda, you really have proved a clown of the first order. I NEVER SAID THERE WERE MORE COINS SLABBED THAN UNSLABBED.And I gave you real world numbers of coins, something your Royal Laziness has not been able to do. Now if you choose to be a bullock (to use your very words(, so be it. Just because you haven't a clue, you try to change the argument. Slabs are far more common than you seem to realize, something I have pointed out to you and also invited you to check several sites to give you an idea of the scope. I do not think they are the end-all and have had definate disagreements with some of the attributions and grading. I also do not like the space they consume and think they may not have a good place for circulated or most hammered bits, or common pieces. If you would recall, there was a question about slabbing matte set holders and it is not done to my knowledge. Also, as far as cost, occasionally the slabbers have sales, and I got one email recently from PCGS that they were slabbing "economy" coins for $10 plus shipping and insurance - not too bad. Mostly I have seen these slabs on higher valued coins but they are obviously trying to reach a larger audience and "pump" the volume.

No actually Azda, you are rather the cretin, and have NOT responded to my examples and tried to reword what I have said. I have said that slabs are becoming more and more dominant within the marketplace and are a force to be reckoned with. True it is, and bray if you like... As far as ridiculous arguments by you that have been gunned down regard the ability to take pictures through slabs and that somehow slabs will go away or that there are numerous labelling or attribution errors, remain just that., ridiculous arguments. 25 million coins have been slabbed by them, possibly nearly that many by NGC. Before you open your trap again, maybe you should look at the PCGS British coin census. Or maybe do something on your own for a change. I am not going to count how many coins are in slabs, nor was that my point so evidently you are stuck without significant arguments. Please bring something useful and interesting to the table besides the "bollocks" label. The matte specimens are individually slabbed by both the two listed companies, and I have seen all save one set of 1927s. I also might ask you to find unslabbed 1922 specimen pennies, unslabbed gold 1922 florins, unslabbed 1924 specimen proof sets, and same for the 1930 proof VIP half crown. Actually the examples are so numerous that I will leave it up to you and your "bollocks" arse to check it out for yourself since I have cited the examples.

Actually Azda, ALL of the 1927 and 1937 mattes are slabbed, and I used them as an example. I would not bother to slab a coin worth less than 300 pounds or so. Pictures ARE READILY taken through the Perspex , if you doubt this please check the Heritage archives. Here's another - check the Cheshire Collection coins (and I could name many many more). Let's see, we're they slabbed? Why yes they were. Point is slabbing is much more prevalent than many seem to believe. All good? Certainly not. Benefits? IMO yes.

Azda, go on over to the US for the next ANA Convention, and you will see exactly what I am talking about, and it is not just US coins. Not calling those who denigrate slabs these, but Do Do birds were once common, and became less so. LOL! And also, I just gave you and example of the 1927 matte proof coins. Or the 1937 matte proof coins - pray tell if you know (and I do) whether the vast majority are slabbed or not? Or maybe you should check out the Terner sale and tell me of where you have seen more unslabbed quality gold coins, at least in one private collection. Quite frankly, the unslabbed coins are becoming more scarce, even in the British series even though there are substantial numbers still out there. And you can quite naturally provide your own figures as I have given a few places to start. As long as you don't mind coming to sit my three year old I'll be glad to do your legwork on research. PCGS just slabbed its 25 MILLIONTH coin.

A few points: Quite frankly, I have found them (TPGs) most amenable with regards to alteration of opinion as long as adequate documentation was provided, so I believe that is not a valid criticism. I do think they make mistakes, generally less with the later milled that are more my interest. I do not always agree with the grading, but they seem to have some consistency. I have seen quite decent pictures taken through the pespex of the plastic slabs. I have found it quite easy to make out detail, even of edges in the newer holders. Quite frankly, in numbers, it appears that the majority of Western collectors are starting to accept these slabs so the "who is using" or "who likes them" discussions seem a bit silly. We see Spink, or Baldwin, or St. James KEEPING these coins in slabs. The argument against mishandling (ie dropping or touching) has still not been refuted; and, how many people really utilise gloves when handling their copper? I am trying to figure out where any of the proponents of slabs are telling anyone else what to do? Not seen, so maybe paranoia? In fact a major driver of the market are slabbed coins, so that was a misplaced assertion. As one example, please tell me if the majority of 1927 matte proofs are slabbed, or "raw"? Also, if these are starting to dominate in numbers (and by the way, check the upcoming Heritage NYINC Sale this January), how can other statements be made? I would argue that larger and larger percentages of top coins in the British market are being slabbed, like it or not. I think the storage issue is a difficult one, and also feel they take a lot of space.

Good spot, sure looks like a "P".

I guess that I also am on the fence as slabbing has many benefits, and the act itself is reversible whereas the hamfisted dealer or collector that plants his index finger squarely in the middle or even edge on a copper coin with lustre has committed an irreversible act with permanent consequences. And I have the coins to show it (not MY prints however). Also, there IS a guarantee by the big slabbers such as NGC or PCGS to back the encapsulated coin as authentic. If it can be proved otherwise they will replace, as is my understanding, at full market value. In point of fact, it is the future of higher valued milled coins IMO, the dinosaurs that don't see it coming may need to visit a show such as the ANA to see just that. Lest you thing it is America only, take a look at the burgeoning Chinese market as well. Old fashioned collectors with cabinets and trays of wood would absolutely spin! The other thing I do not understand is the curmudgeonly appproach or commentaries on slabs - if it is not for an individual, so be it. Why criticize others? I guess those with premium carts and buggies did not look on the advent of the automobile favourably either...

Ummm, 12 molar HCl can get you an explosion with a penny dropped in it. How do i know? Uhhh, don't ask!

Wasn't this Istros coin along with another Black Sea/Thracian area ancient "Greek" silver the subject of some sort of scandal with faking?

Yikes, think she might have picked the wrong forum. Maybe she needs a US forum and could discuss bust coinage.... Maybe she wants to model for the next Britannia?

I love Baldwin's but they occasionally are a bit slower than one might like. I might add that they are tremendously better than the "good ole days"...

Well, I got the 1/4d, 1d, 3d-2/6 in a US auction - Stack's in 1996. I got the crown, which I believe had been with the others in a Noble Australia auction several years later. I was the underbidder and had to buy it back from the winner for a bit more - Uggh!

But I think you might have to admit that the aesthetics of the original coin were improved? Did you visit Stockton's site and see the 1892 Micro "O" restoration? What about chasing cast coins or more often medals - this was done at the mint many times?

Rob's point is taken, and I don't argue in favor of the TPG, but to play devil's advocate I wonder how he would grade his pattern gold coin on simply its "current" merits? I haven't seen it and do congratulate Rob on his alertness in picking up this alteration. I only wish the hairlines could have been avoided on the OP coin.

So should Evans have left Knossos the pile of rubble it was?

Can't argue with one's opinion, but I think most would greatly favor the result of "tooling" in this case. This reminds me of the work done at archaeological sites in the early 20th C. wherein the original work was significantly restored (eg Sir Arthur Evans at Knossos). Would the site be as attractive just a pile of rubble? Still, I back restoration with examples as clearcut as this. Obviously, an outrageous example could be pointed out but that is a bit defeating of this process whereby a likely consensus severely damaged coin is restored to acceptability. Also note this is NOT being passed as mint state...

Was 18 months the downtime? Seems like quite a while though a decent product. Great examples on his website too.

Sounds quite plausible...Still with regards to some issues for Jamaican and other Caribbean entities, certain years are enormously scarcer it would seem than others of the same mintage, and I can't quite figure it out. An interesting bit: the sometimes infamous Franklin Mint struck fairly high quality coins. One of the uncirculated types was "matte", and evidently in the mid-70s very scare-to-rare gold issues were sent by BoJ to small branch banks in the country. Consequently, they appear to be nearly unknown; an example is the matte Columbus ?1975 FM matte? issue...

Here goes (again): If the Royal Mint releases a mintage figure, how can we know if this is an authorized mintage (maximum), number struck or number released? I had actually asked this inquiring about Jamaica proof sets of the '90s and early '00s, but was wondering if anybody might have the answer as I was not able to get an answer from the Royal Mint (or in this case Bank of Jamaica). I am of the opinion that the answer may be that it "just depends", and that these numbers may reflect any of the three possiblilities. It becomes even more difficult with foreign issues I would imagine, because who knows what happens to the coins or sets sent to the various Central Banks?

Such varietals IMO have tendencies to be as scarce as their true collectors. Even though I love late milled coins, I frankly have not even looked at my coins to see if one of these is included.

I have seen pure elemental calcium ignite and nearly explode in the chem lab. That and sodium I remember... Egyptian 1920s gold .875 based on the pattern proof 1922 KG V florins that experimented with gold alloys....

1.5gm?? Color = brassy Conclusion based on just this bit: brass/potmetal. Inference = stay away unless you want junk.

Amen TG! It is nice when it comes time to sell or trade if a coin(s) have risen in absolute value but the pleasure is in holding them for me at least... I was so glad to be able to trade over for some "unobtainables" after my own bits had substantially risen. Parting with the collection for dyed in the wool partisans is probably for the will beneficiaries... If things really hit the fan I am wondering if there will be much growth in coin values anyway.

Ah, yes, braver words never spoken and how true they are. I have had this to occur: a great coin or set comes up at some seemingly unobtainable value and after appreciating it for the wonder that it is, I on second impulse tell myself that it is out of reach. But it then bounces around in my head the thought it might just be obtainable somehow. And quite naturally on the instances of obtaining the piece(s), a trade can be worked out direct or indirectly. I think it took a breakthrough instance to realise this, and recall trading SEVENTEEN fairly rare silver bits for a single smaller copper bit!

Yikes, more competition for the upper end; just what is not needed IMO.