Gary D

I'd would suggest a damaged die like a dot

Just call me a party pooper for bringing this thread back on topic. I have just got a copy of Spinks 2011 to bring my coin collection value up to date ready for the annual insurance, I always leave getting Spinks a few months to give time for the price to drop, I don't like to pay much over £15 for a copy. Anyway it would appears that the value of my collection has gone up by an eye-watering 22% since last year, there have been some editions but Edward VII and early George V have risen strongly. My 1922 penny has gone up something like £2k unless it's a typo, the values have stayed the same but moved down a grade. And where has £115 for a 1937 proof silver 3d come from, it was £12 last year?

Finaly got a photo that may help, the edge would appear to have a thicker edge half way through. Looks to be within normal mint tolerences to me.

Show off. lol - exactly what I was thinking! Nice penny though - Azda's that is... Sorry Jay, yours is a touch umm beaten up?! Nice rub with a bit of Duraglit and you could put a good shine on it. Probably make a extra grade with ease.

The 3s may fit but what about the teeth, they are not in the same place.

Both the Crocker and Workman pieces are pretty poor making the ebay one much more desirable. I believe there are at least a couple of very high grade examples around that would be far beyond the reach of us mere mortals. Here's another picture of mine, definitly better than both the Crocker and Workman.

I think I'll have to get my 164a reavaluated ebay

In hindsight, I wish I'd gone higher and I believe you got a steal at £330. I think up to £500+ would still have been worthwhile. The main thing I notice with eBay is that 'expensive' (i.e. genuinely rare and/or in outstanding condition) coins generally go cheaply, while 'cheap' (i.e. less rare and/or poorer condition) coins are often expensive. If that makes sense? I sell a heap of stuff every week on ebay (as you are well aware Steve) and concur. Mediocre common dross does okay, silver is obviously very hot at the moment, but quality or rare items do bugger all. I think if I was wanting to sell something like the open 3 in question I would either put it into the sale I am runing up Norf in August (big plug there) or (more sensibly) sell at London Coin Auctions as they are, in my opinion, the likliest house at the moment to maximise a price on a rare penny. I was also of that opinion so put a Gouby X and 1909 with dot into London coins and they did bugger all.

In hindsight, I wish I'd gone higher and I believe you got a steal at £330. I think up to £500+ would still have been worthwhile. The main thing I notice with eBay is that 'expensive' (i.e. genuinely rare and/or in outstanding condition) coins generally go cheaply, while 'cheap' (i.e. less rare and/or poorer condition) coins are often expensive. If that makes sense? I bid £555

Definitely an open 3... I was the under bidder at £310 and rather hoped to get it. Now I wish I'd gone more as it's the best I've ever seen too, especially the obverse I'll be putting a run of the mill fair up for sale soon, well once the new one has arrived Congratulations! I have a fair open 3 in the collection already, hence my interest in this better one. Looks like I'll have to start digging deeper as I've lost out on a few coins recently! I'm beginning to dispair over the prices on ebay, I've been the bride's maid not the bride so to speak on so many occassions now. Anyway after seeing what the two Colin Cooke open 3s went for it was very difficult to make a sound judgement so you would have had to go a long way to have beaten my highest bid. I'm not sure where is the best place to sell rare stuff these days as they seldom perform on ebay, but saying that the auction houses vary greatly also.

Definitely an open 3... I was the under bidder at £310 and rather hoped to get it. Now I wish I'd gone more as it's the best I've ever seen too, especially the obverse I'll be putting a run of the mill fair up for sale soon, well once the new one has arrived

Gary, I have found another auction result you might be interested in, described as "BMC --. F 164A. As Dies 1+C. Gouby B. Fine, extremely rare". It went for £800 with 15 bidders. Dont agree with the grading though! F164A James Workman Collection We discussed the F164A a while ago on this site... Here's a really nice example from a fellow member. Yes, I think when I sell my collection about 8 years time Colin Cooke will get first dibs.

The Crocker piece in my opinion was well over priced, mine in F is valued at £200 for insurance. I was a bit disapointed as I found it on ebay only a few weeks after the Crocker auction. Still at $2.35 aussie dollars I wasn't robbed. flippen heck that makes this poor coin the most valuable one in my collection thanks for the info David.

As far as I can judge, you are quite correct. That sad and sorry specimen is indeed the Gouby X or hollow neck type. In that condition for wear, worth £30 -£40 based on recent sales. As it is, well £0.99 looks about right if you can live with it. Well, I bought the penny for £3.20 and guess what? It arrives and it's clearly not the same penny as in the photo! The received coin is so worn/buffed up with a wire brush that the majority of the teeth on the obverse no longer exist. So I emailed the seller (a Polish gentleman it would seem) and he states that there can't have been a mix up because he only had the one coin dated 1911! Yeah right! Anyway, he eventually refunded my money and, even though I told him the coin was one of the worst I had ever seen and worth nothing more than scrap, insisted on having it back! I should have known he was a waste of space. My search for a Gouby X continues. Just an observation Steve but they are clearly 2 different Pennies in the same picture (the lines in the background are unbroken as is the light reflection), so the obverse you were looking at did not belong to the 1911 reverse. Look like an observe 3 so probably a 1922 with 1927 reverse

Still worth a couple of hundred quid even in that condition.

"the writing on the back is writen backwards. " Gary said that the back was the wrong way around... so this means it doesn't rule out the brockage - or confirms it? Your square 5p is interesting, my theory is that as they fed the srip of metal into cutting machine and cut it to the right size, then fed it into the stamping machine, it for some reason failed to stamp out the blank and it was struck in it's odd square state. It's a miracle it got through quality control (or maybe it did and a sneaky mint worker took a bag of dodgy ones home instead of to the melting pot ) You guys can be really slow sometimes...The other side is seen in a mirror, mirrors alway show things in reverse hence the writing is reversed. Where's that shaking head sadly emoticon when you need it. I didn't see the picture... and I was quoting you on the "written backwards" bit. If you're referring to "a brockage should have the reverse facing the right way in the mirror image" he was referring to the terminology for the tails side of the coin. Or am I being slow again? The coin has two heads so I couldn't call the image in the mirror it's reverse without complicating things. Anyway if it was a brockage the reflection would read correctly in the mirror.

err no supprises, want to check the 164A again. Although supposedly not as rare as the open 3 and 1909 I would suggest easily the most hardest of the Edward VII pennies, probably less than 20 known.

"the writing on the back is writen backwards. " Gary said that the back was the wrong way around... so this means it doesn't rule out the brockage - or confirms it? Your square 5p is interesting, my theory is that as they fed the srip of metal into cutting machine and cut it to the right size, then fed it into the stamping machine, it for some reason failed to stamp out the blank and it was struck in it's odd square state. It's a miracle it got through quality control (or maybe it did and a sneaky mint worker took a bag of dodgy ones home instead of to the melting pot ) You guys can be really slow sometimes...The other side is seen in a mirror, mirrors alway show things in reverse hence the writing is reversed. Where's that shaking head sadly emoticon when you need it.

Sounds good to me! An alternate theory I've had for some of these "1 working die only" varieties, is that they were made after the main run for domestic use, when a late application came in from one of the colonies, this could explain why some were rarer in UK circulation than may be expected David Although the 3 over 2 doesn't work for me I can see that possibly they got to the end of the run and needed a new die to finish off. They then bodged something up to run the last few thousand.

Declan, In my experience, these dates and denominations are so common, that you are unlikely to see their varieties identified and advertised by the average dealer. The more knowledgeable may do so, but for most there is probably little incentive to go through their stocks to see if a rare variety is lurking. As far as eBay goes, again I doubt that many sellers are aware of the varieties, so there is always the possibility that one will pop up - having said this, it seems likely if they do that forum members will pick them up quickly. So from my point of view, the best options are either rooting about in boot/antique fair pots of run of the mill coins, or boxes of similar material in general auctions. If you are lucky this will reward you with specimens albeit probably not in top condition. No you're quite right. In fact, looking for the varieties has brought the treasure hunt back to the hobby. I found a D.2331 1962 2/6 the other day unidentified from a well-known dealer. My question really was not "has anyone ever seen these advertised?", but "has anyone ever seen these?". I've only been seriously looking for a few months, but I must have checked hundreds of 1964/1965 sixpences, and 1937 silver threepences! I've been looking for the 3d for several years now and have never seen one. The 1956 1/2d pop up, I've had spares but very little interest on ebay for them. The 1964 6d is not that scarce. The 1965 I had to buy Davies example to get one, never seen one anywhere else. Gary

Now that's something I'd like in my collection, I do like the brass 3d. Obviously not two observes put together as the writing on the back is writen backwards.

Ok, my first item is a 1967 penny that 'clacks' when you drop it. I COULD put a picture up but it looks just like any old boring 1967 penny! Nice grade, mind you, EF with traces of lustre, must be worth all of ... ooh, what shall we say, 99p plus postage? Could it be on a similar penny planchet but for another country? Is it a forgery made of another metal? (As if anyone would forge a 1967 penny ) Does it have anything wrong with the edge? It looks and feels exactly like any 1967 penny (definitely the right planchet, metal, etc). And you're quite right - who'd forge one of they? You'd only notice something wrong if you dropped it on a surface - instead of ringing, it clacks. The only I've not done is weigh it, but I don't have a set of they sensitive coin weigh thingies. Will look like this I think he'd have noticed that! I can definitely confirm I would have noticed that! It was a normal looking 1967 penny when I first got it, apart from a faint crack along the edge.

Ok, my first item is a 1967 penny that 'clacks' when you drop it. I COULD put a picture up but it looks just like any old boring 1967 penny! Nice grade, mind you, EF with traces of lustre, must be worth all of ... ooh, what shall we say, 99p plus postage? Could it be on a similar penny planchet but for another country? Is it a forgery made of another metal? (As if anyone would forge a 1967 penny ) Does it have anything wrong with the edge? It looks and feels exactly like any 1967 penny (definitely the right planchet, metal, etc). And you're quite right - who'd forge one of they? You'd only notice something wrong if you dropped it on a surface - instead of ringing, it clacks. The only I've not done is weigh it, but I don't have a set of they sensitive coin weigh thingies. Will look like this

As far as I can judge, you are quite correct. That sad and sorry specimen is indeed the Gouby X or hollow neck type. In that condition for wear, worth £30 -£40 based on recent sales. As it is, well £0.99 looks about right if you can live with it. looked at that one myself and came to the same conclusion, Gouby X Who's going to be brave enought to ask him a question..... like do you know you have just ruined a rare coin that would have been worth £30-40. Still recon my shilling is the best though

Indeed, if some dam' fool sent them off direct to be melted without checking first. Mind you, the more that go to the melter the rarer the one's we've got become.