1949threepence

Neat capture Bruce.

If I hadn't known what he looked like before, that pic would be unremarkable, But....what the hell has he done to himself? Obviously botox to his forehead, as I'd say it was near impossible to get to 63 without some lines. I had them at - sometime in my 30's I think..

I believe that buyers do factor in buyer's premium when considering a coin. I know in my case, I've really got to want a coin offered by Noonans before considering a bid on it. Simply because their premium is so steep. On a really expensive coin that can make the end result much higher than with other auction houses.

You were saying........😼

You're probably referring to Noonans, whose buyer premium is very high. The Ian Sawden collection from 12.10.21, also attracted import duty of about 5%, which brought the overall buyer's premium to the giddy heights of 33.8%, inclusive of VAT. But yes, the average is about 20%, I'd agree. LCA is pretty good at 17%.

I first noticed slight time discrepancies as long ago as 2017. So maybe it's now getting worse and much more noticeable.

I've said before that there is an issue with the timer on e bay. If you watch it counting down, it sometimes stops, and even goes back forward a second. When you come to make your manual <10 seconds to go bid, you find that it occasionally still carries on after what should be the finish time. Although I've not noticed it go on for more than a few seconds (maybe 5 to 7 seconds) - certainly not a few minutes. But I placed a radio controlled clock by the side of the PC in one auction, and the actual e bay finish time was out of synch with the clock, as I worked using the clock not the timer, and the bidding availability still continued after the clock exceeded the stated auction finish time. So something is wrong. Also it has caused me to lose out on more than one item concerned.

Very nice. The old fashioned "Manks", rather than "Manx".

We know that the undated bi metallic copper model pennies with the nickel zinc and brass centres circulated quite widely post 1844 (although there is a question mark about the exact year they started circulatng - maybe as late as 1848). They proved to be very popular such that the Mint had to deny they had anythng to do with them The popularity no doubt due to the public perhaps feeling weighed down by the very large copper pennies, and finding the unofficial small versions very convenient in that respect. Exactly why the dated 1844 pattern penny was minted by Moore, and clearly in such small numbers, is a mystery. As you allude to above maybe they were in a sense "VIP" coins specially made for those of power and influence, as keepsakes. As to precisely how many there are now, who knows. At the Copthorne sale, it was reckoned that four were known, and unless some more emerge, hopefully as a result of members reading these recent posts, it's still four. I originally thought six, but two of the six are the same specimen, as explained above. There are some other rare examples such as the "PENNEY" spelling error as well as the all silver undated model penny. Not to mention one or two other possibly unique specimens sold at the Copthorne auction under the Moore heading. All in all, very interesting.

PM now sent.

Yes Richard I can. I'm actually at work at the minute - albeit working from home. Got this afternoon off so when I log off at 1:30pm, I'll pm you the links for all of them.

At the risk of becoming a total bore on this issue I can now also say that specimens 4 and 6 are the same coin. There are dings and marks in exactly the same places. This further reduces the total from five to four.

Bet he's a real live wire...

Having done a little further research, I think I can say with confidence that Nos 1 & 3 above, are in fact the same coin. I've compared and contrasted the Colin Cooke pic, with the smaller black and white pic in the Christie's auction catalogue from 1984, and the light marks round the left of the O of ONE on the reverse, as well as the mark just above and to the right of the N of ONE, also on the reverse, are identical. Although the Christies pic is not brilliant, the marks in question show up quite clearly under a magnifier. So the total above is reduced by one, to five

Just be yourself. Nothing else matters really.

I notice Seaman Stain and Master Bates have already been mentioned. But cast your mind back to the 90's and the goalkeeper David Seaman - what was the name of that striker? - the only one who could lob Seaman from 25 yards? Hell of a skill, that one !!!

Given my recent purchase of a BMC 2088 Moore pattern/model penny, dated 1844, I thought I would list on here, all the BMC 2088 specimens I could find after research, before I forget or lose the piece of paper I wrote them down on. It might prove of use or interest at some point. 1/ Freeman auction 23.10.84, lot 252, £380 hammer, ex Foster (October 1953), ex Peck (date not known). Condition given as EF. 2/ DNW auction 14.12.04, lot 1025, £440 hammer, no provenance stated. Condition given as EF, but poor photography. Not convinced it's quite EF. 3/ Copthorne auction, May 2016, lot 216, £850 hammer, no provenance stated. Condition given as UNC. Looks pretty much the same as mine, which I'd class as GEF. 4/ LCA auction 5.6.22, lot 1817, £240 hammer, no provenance stated. Condition given as VF. 5/ The one I've just bought, January 2023, from Tim Medhurst, no provenance stated. Condition GEF with residual lustre. The reverse is not inverted - don't know about the others in this respect. . 6/ Noonans upcoming auction 1.2.23, estimate £300 - £400. No provenance stated. Condition given as GVF, I'd say closer to plain VF. Peck also mentions BMC 2087, which is the same as BMC 2088, but all brass. Not seen one of this type. ***************************************************************************************************************** There was also a mule version sold by LCA on 3.3.19, lot 1234, for £360 hammer, no provenance stated. Condition given as NEF. Date on the obverse, "model" on the reverse.

Maybe @Rob knows.

Yes - if I recall correctly, his wife fell down the stairs and was sadly killed by her injuries, circa 2015. So very sorry to hear of his passing, albeit getting on for 4 years ago.

Quite by chance I came across Paddy on another forum (this one) - different username but same photo he used on here. I notice that he was last active there on 16.1.22, a day before he was last active on here, 17.1.22. Sadly one can only conclude that he either had an extremely abrupt and spectacular loss of interest in coins, or something has happened to him.

I wouldn't expect anything I buy to have provenance extending back to the 19th century. Nonetheless, some bronze/copper coins have been in major collections for decades, and it's always great to see some reference to that. For example if you take the coin I've just bought - the BMC 2088. If the example sold by Freeman in 1984 (lot 252) came up for sale, the seller could quote ex Freeman October 1984, C.W.Peck, and Foster October 1953 as past owners. Occasionally the evidence is there, and even if sourced from more modest collections, it's always interesting.

What a very interesting and well presented video, which I really enjoyed watching, albeit Christmas has come and gone. Thanks for the obvious hard work and research.

I really appreciate provenance, but it is depressingly scarce, even on rare coins. Oh to buy a coin with a list of buyers, sellers and dates, with receipts. A dream.

Possibly something similar. Actually I've got a 1935 penny which I think was dipped in hypo. We know virtually all 1934 pennies were, but 1935 specimens are a lot rarer, so I might just be being too optimistic. As far as dipped coins generally, the US market seems a lot more tolerant of this than we do. Hence the complete blue ruination of a once very nice 1859 proof.

Delighted to have obtained this early Moore pattern/model penny, with the date 1844, in high grade, about GEF, and issue free. BMC2088 and described by Peck as excessively rare. Freeman (798) had them as R20, and by the time the one in the Copthorne collection sold in 2016, there were believed to be four extant. I can trace about 6 (including the mule). Probably more than that, but I'd say <10 all told. Actually, there's one on offer in the next Noonan's sale, 1st to 2nd Feb, but it's a full grade lower than this one.