1949threepence

All I can say is "wow", what a collection ! The 1860 UNC (not that far off BU) mule penny interests me greatly, but I fear I would be blown out of the water on bidding. By the way the link is here for convenience.

Hiram Brown Part 2, now runs to 4 pages. The additions are mostly pre 1860 copper pennies and halfpennies.

Insurance Risk analyst.

Looks good Chris. I thought at first the new black and white emoticons had replaced the originals, but scrolling down, I note they are still there, so won't take the hump lol 🐫

Ah, so that's the reason. Well I'm not more deserving than you. Although I'm not a legend, more a leg end

It's incredible the rubbish they come up with to try and rip off the unsuspecting punter.

Winning bid £1.00 Pete....'nuff said

You're 'avin a larf my son link

Yes, grading wise I'd say a/EF. Not sure on price as not my speciality. Bot someone else will know for sure.

The fake news reference was only meant to be tongue in cheek. But the facts do show that there is no such Freeman type as the 10A.

It's misleading Bob, misled both of us. When I first saw it on the dnw site, I genuinely thought it might be a new type, which is why I bought the up to date 2016 Freeman book, expecting to see it in there. Somebody, somewhere, has deliberately made that up. What's the modern expression? - fake news

I mean, 10A would fit perfectly, but it's just not a real Freeman type. Highly regrettable that they indulge in such tactics.

Well, thanks for this Paddy and for the thread, Madness. This was a subject about which I knew nothing. Wouldn't have even known what proclamation coins were. Certainly would never have guessed that coins from various lands were all used in Australia post 1800, and that each were allotted a different value. Perfect for collecting.

Agreed, Jerry. Mine would be:- 1/ Keep a sense of humour. 2/ Accept that others beside me have a right to their opinion. We're all different. 3/ I'm not always right. In fact there is usually no definitively right or wrong answer. Life is not 20 maths questions. 4/ Go in with the perspective that you can have a blazing row, but still emerge mates afterwards, shake hands and have that cyber pint together.Whatever's said in here, we leave it at the door and don't talk about it anywhere else. 5/ Never hold a grudge. It's not personal, it's politics. 6/ I'm a rottweiler

Similar to me Jerry. Marginally better than mine (which is example 15 in Richard's rarest pennies site for F32), but certainly not significantly enough to warrant me bidding.

and I'd say an above the average, problem free example, from the admittedly limited population, Pete. So a bit of a win win. Had I not already got one, and seen that, I might well have gone to £875, or even pushed the bidding higher.

I think it's an example of someone trying to make a fool out of a naive buyer. But even allowing for naivety, surely no-one would fall for this.

Fingerprints are, of course, common on lustred coins. I've got a couple myself and have often mused that whoever put the fingerprint there, will now be long dead. Or was it somebody in more recent times just handling the coin carelessly? Interesting article on coin fingerprinting

It's your call what you do with it, if anything. Just as it is your choice whatever else you choose to post on the topic. Unless you can present some credible evidence to support your assertions, my interest in the topic is now at an end. It was you who started the thread, Larry, so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that your ideas will be cross examined and questioned. Better that, I'd imagine, than it being completely ignored. It's not my forum by the way, it's a common resource for the good of all of us. I have a probing, analytical mind and when a question is posed, I like to get to the bottom of it - as far as is possible at any rate. On this occasions I felt it was a good way forward to ask the RM for their view, or possible historical record, which I did in a wholly objective and unbiased way. Anyway, for better or worse we now know what their view of the matter is.

OK, so as I said in the thread on what your collection did for you last year , I did actually contact the Royal Mint about this issue, under an FoI request. Personally, I don't believe there are any underlying images deliberately placed underneath the main design of coins, but you never know. Stranger things have emerged, and it's always worth getting the official viewpoint. What I can't see is any logical reason for doing it, especially on what would have been, even then, low value items like pennies. We know there were contemporary counterfeits at the time, which would not have been difficult for the trained eye to spot. The other obvious question is what would be the point of implanting such subtle images if the public was unaware of them? Genuine question. Everybody has always known about images and marks placed in banknotes to make them difficult to fake, and before the modern designs, the silver strip - as a known deterrent. So why go to such lengths with pennies, in secret? Anyway, here is my enquiry, and their reply. The respondent does say that she can't say what the images might be without seeing the coins. So it may be worth @DrLarry sending some off for comment. I certainly don't see any other way of convincing many people of the idea's credence without some official nod in its direction.

The GF F32 on e bay recently went for £875. Not a bad price in all fairness.

Of course, die wear can manifest in all manner of different ways. For example, note the way the 9 on this 1891 penny tends to lack a tail and runs into nothing. That's pure die wear:-

Now got an 1897 O .N E penny (F147) courtesy of Bob @RLC35 I'd estimate at EF. Nice coin and another Freeman currency type box ticked.

This is what an EF reverse from that era should look like, big difference:-

In a sense, yes. For example certain coins in certain years are known to have die wear problem. I'll just take the 1906 penny as a prime example. The reverse of the 1906 has a reputation for die wear, and mine is no exception. It's otherwise EF with some residual lustre, but the reverse only looks fine in places, especially parts of Britannia. This is in addition to what Peck says above, which I totally agree with. Take a look:-