1949threepence

100% agreed. It doesn't look MS63. It just looks a scruffy mess. As you say, ridiculously overpriced.

Just looking at the British Coin section of this auction. Twelve pages apparently, but I can't seem to find a way past page 1. Can anybody else help? Not sure whether it's my device or not. Thanks in advance link (to page 1)

Thanks Gents. Working fine now - maybe the servers were under a bit of pressure. Bit disappointing anyway.

Although I do like the Flying Scotsman centenary £2 coin.

Welcome to the forum - I'm yet another copper and bronze man.

As far as collecting goes, one thing is becoming very noticeable in recent years, and that is the absolutely massive hike in rare proof prices. For example the 1861 Freeman 37 proof penny sold at the Copthorne Auction in 2016 for £1800 hammer (+17% buyers premium = £2106). Absolutely superb specimen. Another F37 (not quite as good IMO) is now being offered by another dealer for £4250 cash. So roughly a doubling of value in 6 and a half years, although must take some inflationary effect into account in the intervening period. I've absolutely no doubt it will sell and soon. Other proof specimens - notably at the recent Australian Noble Verene proofs sale emphasise this quite profound rise in proof coinage values over a short period. Also, take a quick dekko at the popular George V 1937 four coin gold proof sets (five pounds to half sovereign). They too have seen a massive hike, although again, some of this may reflect a rise in bullion prices.

Thanks Richard - forgive my ignorance.

Who is this "Groucho" you speak of? As far as collecting goes, one thing is becoming very noticeable in recent years, and that is the absolutely massive hike in rare proof prices. For example the 1861 Freeman 37 proof penny sold at the Copthorne Auction in 2016 for £1800 hammer (+17% buyers premium = £2106). Absolutely superb specimen. Another F37 (not quite as good IMO) is now being offered by another dealer for £4250 cash. So roughly a doubling of value in 6 and a half years, although must take some inflationary effect into account in the intervening period. I've absolutely no doubt it will sell and soon. Other proof specimens - notably at the recent Australian Noble Verene proofs sale emphasise this quite profound rise in proof coinage values over a short period. Also, take a quick dekko at the popular George V 1937 four coin gold proof sets (five pounds to half sovereign). They too have seen a massive hike, although again, some of this may reflect a rise in bullion prices.

Very comprehensive.

Oh right, was Etheridge his real name? I always thought it was Copthorne. Maybe he named his collection after something else.

Just to clarify for Old Copper, as 3b was described as very rare. Absolutely. I think it's got to be the same for vast majority. In your late teens, twenties and even thirties, you're making your way in the world (jobs, marriage, kids etc), and hobbies might have to be put aside.

The other issue with coin clubs is that numismatics is a very, very wide topic. As a result. most of the time they'll be discussing areas you're not necessarily particularly interested in. Although I do think you'd need to partake and present something yourself. Probably a lot of hard work and preparation would need to go into even just a 20 minute talk to other members.

There used to be a coin club in this town, which met once a month in a local church hall. But unfortunately they seem to have disbanded. Countrywide, there are some very well established and thriving coin clubs, but I've no idea as to their demographic breakdown. Essex numismatic society is one such club, and they hold their monthly meetings in my home town. But I never joined when I first became interested in coins. I just assumed I was too young and never enquired. I always imagined they'd have refused me. If I moved back down there now, I'd definitely join.

Don't even get me started on the total rip off that slabbing is.

With regard to coin fairs, auctions and the like, another factor to be taken into consideration is how expensive the hobby can be. Older people tend to be the ones with the spare cash, hence you probably won't see many young people there as they just can't afford it. I wouldn't mind betting that was also the case 50 years ago.

The spark of interest has to come from within. It cannot be imposed.

An interesting and encouraging article here

You too Richard.

Hmmmm, I'm not sure to be honest. I can see the logic of what you're saying, but it's surely based on the premise that the generation which grew up with lsd in the days immediately prior to decimalisation, are the only ones who continue momentum with the hobby. However, numismatics is centuries old, so even if coins do become completely redundant we have to set against that, the fact that coins are big business internationally, and it's not just the baby boomer generation who collect - for example as you know, I'm an obsessive collector and born in the very latter years of generation X (so thankfully can't be labelled a millenial). Inevitably the momentum and interest in coins will be passed from generation to generation, and, just as now, there will always be some who take on the mantle of collectorship and dealership. Redundancy of cash and no further use for coins, will take a very very long time internationally. Not all countries are like the UK with our seemingly deleterious and somewhat parochial attitude towards notes and coins. Much of which, I suspect, is motivated by a governmental and organised finance desire to have more control over ordinary folk. As long as cash is around, much of that control is totally impossible, notably for tax purposes, as it's beyond the all seeing eye of the state. Moreover, the fact that coins no longer exist may eventually have one of two effects, either a) it goes as you suggest, or b) it actually increases interest. Depends on collective psychology. From what I observe shopping in supermarkets, especially ASDA, most young people use actual cash. It's the "middle aged" who use cards, for convenience. Actually most older guys use cards as well - at the self serves, although older women tend to use cash via a checkout operator. I'm observant like that. Traders who insist on only accepting cards are actually shooting themselves in the foot, as they will be missing a portion of trade on a constant basis. Conversely, tradesmen (decorators etc) actively prefer cash payments, probably for tax avoidance purposes, but who cares given how our money is spent by the state. The current boom in coins isn't just driven by the baby boomer generation. It can't be. If it were, I suspect it would be much more "steady state" than what it is. Many other age ranges are involved.

Yes. Page 46: "FARTHING 1717, 3a. CORRECTED ERROR. R - An N has been lightly cut where the first A is and shows plainly below the correct letter." Described as rare.

Interesting to note that a number of the sub varieties identified by Bramah as rare, were never mentioned by Peck. For example the 2a, 2c, 3b, 4a, distinctions between 10b & 10c, 23a, 25c & 26a. Bramah's book was only ever (as far as I can see) subject to one printing. Consequently, after nearly a century (copyright 1929), remaining often tatty copies are now, understandably, very scarce and very costly. Hence many collectors and dealers are unaware of these rare varieties. Some are especially rare in the higher grades, but seldome attrbuted. Cope and Rayner looked at grade rarity comparisons in their 1975 book, but apart from the 1854/3 - which also, incidentally, is extremely rare in EF and above, according to them - no mention is made of the other Bramah sub varieties referred to above. The 2a seems to be more widely known about than the rest for whatever reason. Bramah type 17a (the 1854 no colons) was taken forward by Peck, but again, only seldom attributed. Do we need a new book to raise awareness? - naturally this time with high end photography, including close ups, available

Ian, that would be really interesting and something to look forward to. Obviously the Bramah 26a is very much an unsung scarcity among pre 1860 Victorian pennies. I got mine as an unattributed date only specimen. Only seen one since, but don't go looking every day, so there will have been quite a few more no doubt, including Pete's. Don't think too many dealers know about the variety, or don't bother looking for it.

Yes, that's a really good way of putting it. I actually very much like them, and already have an R96 & R98. Looking for an R97, and also, eventually, a few of the 1797 restrikes. Of course the first ones weren't produced until about 1862 (according to Peck), and continued for many years henceforth. So much of Taylor's work could never have been presented as fake currency anyway, as that type would already have been demonetised. Even so, as Rob says, there was never any intention to deceive, and everything was done "up front" as it were. Boulton had a great imagination, and some of his productions, especially around 1805, are truly unique.

Very popular are the quasi fake Taylor restrikes. When the SOHO Mint was closed in 1848, and whether by default or design, Birmingham die sinker W.J.Taylor purchased some genuine SOHO coin dies along with scrap metal, and proceeded to mint his own. He was relatively successful at it, as he had a number of orders, and many of these re-strikes are still available today. Although often lightly spotted because the dies were rusted, some are actually very attractive looking, such as the 1806 and 1807 (R97 and R98) restrike pennies. Supposedly bronzed copper, the bronzing seems a bit thin, and the result is actually a very pleasing dark golden tone in many cases.

Ingram is offering one with a "cleverly altered date" (looks clumsy and botched to me), for an overpriced £325 - link