1949threepence

The link you want, Declan can be found here

Bit like me then The F164 is not actually touted as a scarce coin. But in UNC condition it's going to be far from common. You got it for a neat price. Surprised Matt didn't have one in his collection though.

What was it, Pete?

Thanks chaps. Until you recenly posted a pic of a GEF example, Richard, I'd never actually seen one better than fine. The vast majority less than that. So it was with great satisfaction that I anaged to bag that one for such a relatively low price. Yes Bob, there do seem to be a few Michael's about. But none of us Michael's take the Mick, we're all serious

Well my Freeman 69 from John's halfcrown and penny auction through PFK, arrived today. Very pleased. I do genuinely think it deserves a spot in this thread, as it's not often you can get such a rare coin in VF or above. There are a few slight edge knocks, and a bit of a divot from the Shield across the upper part of Britannia's legs, which don't detract given the rarity. Otherwise problem free. Fields are nice and clear.

Now arrived, John - very pleased. Going to post in the "Penny acquisition of the week" thread, where it's fully deserving of a spot.

Well better news, John. I e mailed them and asked what the position was, and Liam e mailed back apologising. He said it had been posted today, and gave me a tracking No. So with a bit of luck and a following wind, it should arrive tomorrow.

Still not received my won lot. When I paid on the Wednesday evening 9th August, the guy said he hoped it would be with me on Friday 11th before 1pm. Nothing. When I rang Monday 14th, the lady said she would try to get it out to me that day - still nothing. Off work today and still nothing, although it's not quite 1pm yet. Must give them another ring.......

Seems a bit below the belt that this applies to stuff already on there, posted under the terms previously offered. Sounds like sharp practice to me. Is it legal? It amounts to the old "If I'd known you were going to do that, I'd never have bothered with you in the first place"

Die clashes should not occur in the production of modern coins. The event is rare, but the coins affected won't be.

I'm not certain I would necessarily agree with that. For example, the chronology seems to logically follow the numbers in both 1860 and 1874. Very possibly 1861 also, as far as he can do. It may not in the case of 1864, although he does say type (i) for the 48 and type (ii) for the 49, so I'd say it's more probable than not that it does, at least in Freeman's mind. No, the mint wouldn't care, but since you've now raised the question, and piqued my interest in the issue, I've sent off a Freedom of Information Act request to the RM asking them about the plain and crosslet 4's. I'll post the reply when it arrives. It may not be much of a reply, we'll see. But they are, at least, legally obliged to answer it.

Might be a very long wait for such an item.

Interesting points. I don't know, and I suspect it will remain speculation. Also, which came first, the crosslet or the serif? Freeman has the crosslet at No 48, and the serif as 49. With that said, there could be something in the Royal MInt report for1864, which may cast some light over the issue. Might be worth contacting the RM with a question about it. .

I've never seen one with an absolutely straight horizontal bar, with an abrupt end, as per your typical 4. They all curve slightly upwards. No idea whether that was the original intention. I'd imagine it was, else surely a completely straight type would have shown u and been separately identified by now.

Funnily enough, Pete, I actually managed to get a GVF/NEF specimen off e bay in 2012, for just £99.00. Quite happy with that as it's problem free.

Of the two, plain and crosslet, plain is definitely the most difficult to get in really high grade. They're both tough to find in that grade, but the plain is the more so. Also, like this specimen, if you do find one, it comes with other issues. I agree, a tad expensive considering the drawbacks.

Nice one Ian. At UNC grade, £240 total is still a bargain for an F96.

Thanks Richard - absolutely superb. Is that the one from the Freeman sale do you know?

Thanks Ian. It's a belter, so not surprised you wanted it as well. The F69 is scarce enough to begin with, so there can't be too many better than John's. An EF example went at the Freeman Auction in 1984, but I've not actually even seen a pic of one in EF. This is easily the best I've seen. Gouby says there's one in "EF+". You're right about the auction speed. It was moving extremely quickly, especially by auctioneer No 2, who was fairly racing through them. Sorry to hear you had to pay over the odds for your purchase from the USA. Would it be impertinent to ask what it was?

It's not the actual cost, John - overall I've got this coin at a considerably lower price than I ever would have envisaged - it's simply another case of upfront costs just not being properly explained on initial enquiry. Simon told me about the 20.4% buyer's premium, which in itself wasn't clear on the website, but he failed to tell me about the additional cost for buying over the internet.

Thanks Sword. There's a very nice, expensive, 1864 plain 4 penny for somebody. Can't really see anything else of interest from my POV. I notice there's also another VIP threepence that Guy might want, although I've not seen him around recently.

Hmmm...so I've just had my invoice e mailed from PFK, and the total cost was £508.00. According to the e mail reply regarding the enquiry I sent a few days ago, and shown upthread, the hammer price of £400.00 would incur an additional charge of 20.4%. Therefore, £400.00 + 20.4% = £481.60. So I'm thinking, hang on a minute, unless there's something I've not been told, the figure supplied is mathematically incorrect, since postage and packing for a single coin by tracked next day delivery, aint going to be £26.40 (the difference between £481.60 and £508.00) I rang PFK on the number supplied and the guy I spoke to said there was indeed an additional £20.00 charge for dealing online, which of course, wasn't previously explained. Never mind. Hidden charges eh? You've got to watch these people like a bloody hawk. ----- Original Message ----- From: info@the-saleroom.com To: Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 3:59 PM Subject: Penrith Farmers' & Kidd's PLC - payment request The Skirsgill Saleroom Skirsgill Penrith, Cumbria CA11 0DN United Kingdom +44 (0)1768 890781 Penrith Farmers' & Kidd's PLC Fine & Rare 05 - 10 Aug | Live Auction Following your successful purchase(s) at Penrith Farmers' & Kidd's PLC, the following sum is now due for payment. If you have any questions please call Penrith Farmers' & Kidd's PLC on +44 (0)1768 890781. Amount due 508.00 GBP Pay Now > Please add The Auction Technology Group info@the-saleroom.com to your address book. Metropress Ltd, (t/a The Auction Technology Group) Registered in England No. 1010311, Registered Address: 65 Southwark Street, London, SE1 0HR, United Kingdom, Tel: +44 (0)203 725 5500 ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com ______________________________________________________________________

Enjoy the Glen Livet, John ! Come October, when I've got a bit more cash, I'd be interested in the F21, if you've still got it by then.

I must admit, I was very surprised there was so little interest. Maybe not that many were aware of the auction? Some seemed like absolute bargains, and if I wasn't so cleaned out after having my new kitchen, I might have bid for a couple more. As it is, the small work bonus I got at the end of July has neatly covered the F69, which at that price and in that condition, was a cracker of a bargain IMO. I bet at a DNW or Spink live auction, it would have gone for at least twice that, and I'd have been blown out of the water. Can't understand why it didn't go at the LCA, as it's a very rare item, not far off the F76 for rarity.

Still pretty bad I'm afraid, John - although I bid on the one that interested me, namely the Freeman 69, and won for £400 hammer. I wasn't the only bidder either, as the auctioneer started at £320. Whilst I'm aware there is a GEF example out there somewhere, yours, at GVF and problem free, is the best I've encountered in many years of looking and seeing nothing better than barely fine, or slightly better and damaged in some way. It'll certainly be an excellent replacement for my current one, which is fine, but was polished at some point. They're onto the paintings now, so I've logged out.