1949threepence

I have also noticed this quote in Spink, but surely if a coin is UNC whether full lustre or not it merits UNC price. If a coin is toned, does that mean Spink says its EF? Not getting that part at all. Also how many bunheads have we seen in what spink would then regard as ture UNC which would mean with full lustre. Sorry but i must laugh at that quote Anyway back to the post, i believe that ms66 is 1 point short of perfect by USA grading standards, so hence the push in price me thinks. I don't think that is the case though, Dave. As you say there are very few bunheads which would be in what we regard as a pure BU state, and those which are, command a hefty premium over their merely (technically) uncirculated cousins. Have a look at this as an example of as near to BU as you will get with a bunhead. Look at what he's asking for what is one of the more common dates ~ and he will probably get it, or as near as dammit. It's no doubt enjoyed an almost hermetically sealed existence since minting. I think there are UNC bunheads in which all the original underlying lustre is essentially still present, in that there has been no wear to the coin, and when it came out of circulation, probably still presented with pretty much 100% lustre. But time and the atmospheric exposure of well over a century, has removed the surface lustre such that the coin, whilst otherwise perfect, appears brown or black.

Either he doesn't know what an ME looks like, or he's mistaken in his beliefs. Listing's been changed now ... "...I've now been told it may not be..." Do I hear the sound of furious backpeddling lol ?

Either he doesn't know what an ME looks like, or he's mistaken in his beliefs.

Welcome to the forum, Rose

I know somebody who's actually got a machine for doing £sd calculations. I think it's called a comptometer. Much larger than your latterday pocket calculator.

Although I don't think you are really comparing like with like to be honest. Gary, who wasn't an irresponsible pissed up boy racer, realised what had happened instantly, and took immediate steps to try and rectify the situation. Had he been a few minutes earlier, it's entirely possible that a message could have got through to Railtrack, or whoever is responsible for signalling, for them to place an immediate stop signal on the train in question, and tragedy would have been averted. Would you have advocated 3 years then ? Having once nearly fallen asleep at the wheel of my own car, following a bad night, I know how fine the line is between knowing you have to stop, and keeping going.

I would go with violence and persistence but otherwise agree with you. There are too many people in prison for non-violent crimes they are never going to repeat (remember the case of, I think it was Gary Hart who accidentally drove a trailer onto a railway line which caused a fatal accident? He was gaoled because he had had insufficient sleep the night before. A case crying out for a community sentence, but instead he got 3 years - a total waste of time and money). I couldn't agree more about Gary Hart, Derek. What happened was an appalling accident. But it was an accident, caused by falling asleep at the wheel. Something that could have happened to anyone. If he'd just driven off the road into a wood, say, nothing more would have happened. But he fell unlucky, as did the train and its passengers. Twist of fate and extraordinarily harsh outcome. Jailing him was wrong IMO. For those who don't remember the case, there's an article about it here

Assuming dead on 600 trades, that's a 99.5% success rate, which is actually pretty good. I have to say that I haven't had a single item not arrive with RM. Some recorded delivery and even special delivery items have just been shoved through the letter box without me signing for them, but apart from that, absolutely no problems. I've also had coins from the USA and Canada arrive after about 7 or 8 working days, usually. Again none not received.

I must admit, that thought passed through my mind as well. Overall, you're probably right, David. Best to play it safe.

This question has come up before,in relation to both buyers and sellers, and IIRC we never arrived at a definitive conclusion. We did mention some sellers who we'd recommend as being reliable and honest, but went no further than that. It might be worth you asking Chris for his opinion on the matter. Obviously it would have to be "members only".

It was interesting, yes. Inevitably, collectors will think more and more in investment terms given the recent steep rise in coin values. Yes, interesting, but I couldn't help think of the three times previous we have "been here before" - once in the late 60s with all those "investment opportunities" involving mint-sealed bags of 1967 pennies etc, then in the mid-70s when inflation sent investors flocking towards alternative forms, and then again in the early 80s with that silver fiasco and all those auction highs for rare coins. I can't help feel that, like property prices, the "eBay phenomenon" (i.e. prices craze) won't last forever, and that it's always best to enjoy our collections, while at the same time trying to avoid paying top dollar during a rising market. Remember the long stagnation from the mid-80s to the late 90s? That's what worries me, assembling my bun collection at possibly the height of a coin bull market. Not that it dissuades me from buying ~ in the slightest. So it can't worry me that much

That has happened to me, Tom, and it was a coin I really wanted. It's easy to get distracted and forget all about it. Then you could kick yourself afterwards for being so stupid. What I do now, is to list the auction coins I'm interested in for the next week or so, together with the relevant times, and leave the list on the tabel by my PC. It's always in large font. I sometimes then set an alarm for about 15 minutes before the end of the auction, and always turn off my phone so I never get disturbed. It's astounding how the bloody thing rings at the most inconvenient times, whilst the rest of the day it's silent. If the end of an auction co-incides with work time, I arrange to swipe out and go home. I could swipe out and use the internet at work, but the connection is too slow to be reliable for last second manual bids.

Hmm, so the next time Man U are 1:1 at 90, and need a winner, they won't be able to give them 12 minutes injury time !!!

In my opinion prisons and longer sentences shold be for violent offenders like the two low lives in the OP. Non violent offences should be dealt with in the community.

LMAO. I was very sad to learn (especially having watched the old Captain as a kid) that "Master Bates" and "Seaman Staines" were just urban legends and never actually existed in any language edition of Pugwash. Although in football, it was no urban legend that Seaman was lobbed from 25 yards on occasions

lol at that Back to the OP ~ I believe there is also a football stadium called the "Wankdorf" !!!

I'd go for slate tiles as well. Much harder wearing and very easy to clean.

The main benefit is, and was, easier monetary calculations at every level. Politically, it was obviously seen as a primary pre-cursor for Common Market membership. I'm not sure that was a benefit.

It was interesting, yes. Inevitably, collectors will think more and more in investment terms given the recent steep rise in coin values.

Just listened to the programme in its entirety. Absolutely fascinating. Several things struck me. Firstly the broadcasting style of the day was slightly different to today ~ a tad more formal and patronising perhaps. The reference to a couple of actual individuals interviewed as "Mr & Mrs Average" would probably not go down well these days, as it might be perceived as slightly insulting. On the plus side the 1971 style was logically sequenced, easy to follow, with crystal clear voices and no hard to understand regional accents. Secondly, it was no surprise to hear that the switch went very smoothly in the end, making the build up look like slight overkill. I'm sure that the great majority of people would have had absolutely no problem with the conceptualisation of decimal currency, which obviously is much easier from a calculating point of view. Imagine the problems if the switch had been the other way round The inflation question was intriguing. Should they have gone for 10 shillings as the base unit, which would have meant 120 to 100, instead of 240 to 100 ? Was decimalisation responsible for 1970's inflation ? Edward Heath clearly thought it was, at least in part. Peter Jay put the blame on Heath and then Chancellor Barber, for massively increasing the money supply (quantitative easing, anyone ?), whilst I have always understood the primary reason to be the astronomic oil price hike in the Autumn of 1973. Always having been good at figures, I'd like to have seen that 1965 maths paper they were going on about, and had a bash at £sd calculations.

It's 8 + K, Dave. Freeman 89. J is the wide date 1876H.

I did do a bit of research on this, the concensus I got being that most people considered the garter to be part of the design rather than the legend. Since this bit wears so readily, if it was treated as part of the legend, there would be no coins (or at least the reverse of them) in Fine or Fair at all, the grading effectively dropping from VF straight through to Poor. I'm old school when it comes to grading Derek. It costs me money but I never get complaints or coins sent back due to overgrading. Even my grading seems very lax when you look at some of the graders from the old days at Spinks and their likes though! I can safely say that if Jim Brown at DNW saw this 1908 HC he would not give it more than Fine, if indeed it made it that high. I remember a Coin Monthly piece of advice (late 60s) given out to this very question of garter reverse halfcrowns. The questioner wanted to know if he could grade such items as 'Fine' if some garter letters were worn away. The answer given was that lower standards applied than to the main legend, but if more than a few letters were 'faint' it might be hard to award 'Fine'. How times have changed. Derek's book certainly shows the way, though we might all argue the 'fine points' to some extent. But judging by those pictures, I'd find it hard to justify not giving it an average 'VF' (though a long way from EF!). There's too much hair detail present - always an early casualty on Edw VII, and the reverse is pretty good apart from the high spots. I think grading standards have come down rather, but in one case I'm all in favour. 'Old school' EF said "wear so faint it is not detectable to the naked eye". Well, that argues that if it can not be seen without the aid of a strong glass, there shouldn't be a massive discrepancy between the prices for EF and UNC. But as we know, that differential can be MASSIVE - and it's no coincidence that it's opened up at the same time as EF has become much more 'noticeable' than strictly UNC. Who'd pay a massive difference in price for a virtually invisible difference in condition? I know I wouldn't, for one. Very interesting ~ maybe the garter halfcrown non legend reverse lettering, is even more vulnerable to early wear, than the pre 1881 bun penny convex shield. In which case, if you applied the aforesaid Jim Brown's exacting grading standards, such coins could rarely or never be mid grade. They'd pretty much go from EF straight down to fine or lower. Ah, I see this point has already been made. Just read it.

Thanks Accumulator ~ that is something I will really look forward to listening to Although I wonder if they meant the half crown, as the Crown was not a circulating coin in February 1971. Technically we didn't say goodbye to any of those 3 as florins and shillings remained legal tender, and commemorative Crown-size coins continued to get issued. Nor did we wave 'bye bye' to any coins on 15 February 1971 as that was D-Day 1 and the overlap period lasted until D-Day 2 (August 31?). And even then, the only things we couldn't spend any more were the penny and brass 3d. Yes, but Crowns weren't a circulating coin then, despite the commemorative issues. You most likely would never have received say, a Churchill Crown, in your change.

I'll tell you exactly what I think it is. 1967 pennies went on being minted at Tower Hill until 1970 I believe. I also think that Llantrisant (known locally as 'the hole with the mint') came on stream in what, 1969 or 1970 and until at least 1971 was only producing the vast quantity of bronze required for decimalisation. It therefore follows that Tower Hill was making everything else including the new 5, 10 and 50P coins. When the immediate rush had died down, the old mint would wind down and the workers at Tower Hill were faced with the choice of moving to South Wales or being made redundant. It is a time-honoured British tradition that workers thrown on the dole in such a way have a slightly cavalier approach to their work. They don't sabotage things exactly, but they certainly don't work quite as their employers would like. I think we can propose up all sorts of theories about proofs and trial strikings etc. but I am sure that what happened was that a disgruntled employee simply threw a 10P blank into the penny hopper and this coin is the result. Peckris has already said that 1967 pennies are renowned for the quantity of strange errors that occur (including his famous 'clunking' penny) which would tend to back up my theory. So, nothing complicated just a worker, soon to be made redundant, who had a few too many beers one lunch time and indulged in a very minor act of vandalism. Do I get 'Post of the Day' for that? Why not. It's as good a theory as any, Derek. I think I'd have been pretty pissed off given the choice of staying in London but redundant, or moving to Llantrisant ~ the hole with the mint. It probably was soon to be laid off workers, probably under minimal supervision, just messing about. 1967 though. At least there were plenty of jobs in those days.

Ah, now feeling a degree of embarrassment for that truly horrendous typo