1949threepence

That's going beyond natural enthusiasm, into the realms of total obsession. Very sad really.

What's even more curious is how they managed such decent copies back then. My feeling is that some dies must have "got out" - it was the early days of the new Mint after all, with Boulton & Watt's machinery having to be installed; must have been a fair amount of chaos going on for a while. Maybe some were smuggled out by employees after a quick buck. Probably security was a bit lax at times, with the management most likely more concerned with preventing the theft of actual coins.

I think the first thing I would do is contact the seller, explaining that the coin was not as advertised, and asking for my money back in return for the fake. If the seller failed to reciprocate in a reasonable manner, then assuming it was e bay, I'd raise a complaint with them, maybe through paypal. This is why it's always a good idea to pay via credit card. Then you can start dispute procedures and you haven't actually parted with any money yet.

Interesting site. My eye was drawn to the following:- Something that fake & tampered slabbing will conceal & needs to be watched for.

Nor the fact that they immediately make your fine set of mahogany coin cabinets redundant and useless. Well that wasn't the reason for my reply, but, yes, you are right

I have an Unc 1934 (Mint toned variety) that I got in a Colin Cooke postal auction some years back. Nice. As for those KNs, the 1919 in that grade is pretty truly rare, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it fetch the asking price. I'm not sure I'd want the (inferior) 1918 as part of the deal though. Another one going in the on line coins site (Nick Schofield) for £585. Although I think the EF description is majorly optimistic. Maybe GVF at a stretch. So the price seems high for what it is. click here

The same worn 1863 coin as shown in the pics ? Unbelievable ~ surely no-one would be quite so stupid as to pay that much for a slimline "3" ? I'm astounded they've got the cheek to state that value. Are they losing touch with reality, one wonders ? I know bronze coinage from this era is currently commanding a high premium, but £25k, c'mon. You wouldn't have to pay much more for a 1933 penny

Well many others have already given the same answer to your question that I would have given. So I'll confine myself to saying that slabbed coins are not a favoutite of mine, although I do appreciate the accuracy and reliability of the grading. But I don't like the fact that you can't get at them, nor the premium on price which always strikes me as a bit of a racket.

I'm afraid I agree with you, some of the prices for rarities these days are astounding, but no way would I deal with that seller. He states a strict 'no returns' policy and then concocts some cock and bull story to justify his policy. If the coins are not exactly as described then I think it highly likely that his policy contravenes Canadian law, as it would in the UK but if it push came to shove, trying to resolve any issues across international boundaries would be a nightmare. Absolutely right. This is what he says:- Why would a buyer want to scratch a FDC item they had just bought ? It can't be done by accident, and requires some effort to actually do. So that is a cock and bull story.

Received today. Thank you very much. Interesting piece, and one I will value.

Unreal. Someone with more money than sense.

Not sure, but you don't want to 'peon' a live rail. I'll get my coat... Post of the thread Classic (Incidentally, I think a "peon" is an American expression describing a lower working class person ~ maybe equivalent to "pleb" over here)

Weight, surface detail, multiple examples with identical marks, incorrect die axis, edge quality, counterfeit references (of which there are many but people can't be bothered to read), quality of strike, sharpness of detail. Where are they ? Chris doesn't have this book, so here is a link to my site. This is an invaluable reference which covers counterfeits from all eras. It can never hope to cover every article written, but it's a very good start. Many thanks Rob

It's a great idea in theory, but very difficult and somewhat impractical to produce in practice, 1) because pretty much impossible to know all the fake examples, and 2) the dynamics are constantly changing. We could do with a thread on here somewhere, drawing attention to all the fakes we encounter, either (unfortunately) bought, or just spotted on the web.

Weight, surface detail, multiple examples with identical marks, incorrect die axis, edge quality, counterfeit references (of which there are many but people can't be bothered to read), quality of strike, sharpness of detail. Where are they ?

Congrats 1949 (walks away mumbling to himself) :-) It was a very nice surprise, as v rare for me to win anything. Thanks Huss. I'll look forward to receiving it

Actually shutting e bay down is impractical, as they don't just sell coins. Surely the way forward is to target those sellers who are correctly identified by buyers, or potential buyers, as being responsible for passing on fakes, whether deliberately or by default. The problem in the case of very good fakes is that the buyer may not even be aware of the fact that he holds a fake, until he comes to sell it, or some dealer looks at it at a much later date. I've no idea what UK law is in this respect, but it would be prudent to never buy from China, and I've noticed that many e bayers refuse to sell to China, as well. I suppose the only true 99% safe guarantee, is only to buy slabbed coins from e bay. Athough I'd guess that 99% + of the coins on offer, are actually genuine ~ especially the worn ones lol.

Well an image of it can be seen here~ I uploaded a screenshot to imageshack. The reverse looks fantastic true BU, as does the obverse to some degree. But I'm not sure whether they are bag marks, or actual score marks at the base of the King's head, not to mention what look like a couple of carbon spots on the reverse, notably between the N & Y of penny, and some dirty marks round the chin on the obverse, plus extensive slight pitting, or looks that way to me. I don't think it's quite worth £195, although it might be if it were truly perfect. I'd say £150 would be nearer the true resale value.

Pretty much what I thought, too. Curious nonetheless, given that you very rarely see the KN pair offered in such good grade. Thanks for the advice ~ hopefully I don't have the brain of a blancmange, and I definitely don't have the resources of a Roman Abramovich !!!

Very difficult sometimes to discern fakes from the genuine article. Quite worrying really. I often wonder if I've got some in my collection.

No, but I can still kind of see, that in the hand, it would look great. Thanks Peck

Yes, despite the small images, that's a good point well made. I have two 1901 Unc pennies - one almost BU with that pale straw toning to the lustre, and a fingerprint on the reverse. The other is also technically Unc, but has an overall rich dark tone with some lingering lustre that is such a deep red colour, it's utterly gorgeous. When I get a chance I will try to post scans. Here's a slightly larger image of the nicely toned 1900:- Yes, very nice. My 1901 is similar, but imagine the lustre slightly redder and deeper in colour. After saying that, you really do have to post a pic

Yeah, not sure where they've gone. I'm sure they were still there last time I looked (in February).

Yes, despite the small images, that's a good point well made. I have two 1901 Unc pennies - one almost BU with that pale straw toning to the lustre, and a fingerprint on the reverse. The other is also technically Unc, but has an overall rich dark tone with some lingering lustre that is such a deep red colour, it's utterly gorgeous. When I get a chance I will try to post scans. Here's a slightly larger image of the nicely toned 1900:-

I've certainly never received one in my change. It's difficult to know about the mintage figures. I suppose you could always e mail the Royal Mint. But if you do, don't hold your breath waiting for a reply. I'm still waiting for a reply to one I sent last Summer.