1949threepence

Credit where it's due, although I think I've bought very little from Cambridge Coins, I have generally thought their grading stood up to scrutiny. Run by a guy called Dave Allen who, as far as I know, is absolutely no relation! Well you're the undoubted expert on grading, Derek. I certainly wouldn't argue with your conclusions

Nice coin which I'd grade as NEF/EF, with the reverse being marginally the better. The three lions show what looks like some very slight wear, but this may be due to a soft strike. Not sure. I don't think the coin has been cleaned either. I've noticed that cleaned coins tend to have many, many hairline lines, all going in one even direction. The scratches on the coin shown are not overly numerous, and they look random. As ever, it's all up for debate, and I may be wrong, as may others.

I think many of the online coins look slightly overgraded, as well as overpriced. That's when a photo is even available. Good choice available though. Yes If you can point me to a seller who does not overgrade and overprice I would be grateful, it seems a bit of a minefield out there. Where do you buy your coins? If you don't mind me asking. Oh, they don't all do that. Many dealers are very punctilious in ensuring a fair grading and price. A few positively undergrade on some of their coins. I mostly use e bay and some dealers I've got to know over the years. I have bought one coin from online coins (Cambridge coins), which was good value. Not saying that all the coins on there are overgraded/priced. It's just a general observation.

Yep, and he wants £500 for it as a "buy it now" or best offer ~ see it here I'm not sure it's worth it. Over 6 months have elapsed, and it's still for sale @ £500 Evidently not perceived as a bargain.

Whilst researching Edward VII shillings in readiness for me attempting to complete my 1902 to 36 collection with the rarest and most expensive of the set, I came across these variants listed by Gouby. The 1904 type 2a is from an original finding by Dave Webb of "onewebby" the e bay coin vendor. He is right except that in the period from 1907 to 1910, the R's (as far as I can tell), mostly revert to the straight shortened version seen in the 1903 variant, listed as type 2a, not as per obverse 2. Apologies if this has already been noted elsewhere. link here

my snipe was 20th bid .. £26 David Just as a matter of interest David, was it touted by the vendor as a wide/unusual looking date, or just put up as an ordinary 1895 ?

I think many of the online coins look slightly overgraded, as well as overpriced. That's when a photo is even available. Good choice available though.

Well spotted gap between 9 and 5. Was there much bidding for it ?

Gordon Bennett Never thought I'd read such weird script on a coin forum.

And "lasts" as well; a banknote print run might go from serial number AA00 000001 (first prefix) to say GE12 345678 (last prefix). Many collectors aim for a representative "first and last" with as low a serial number as possible from each print run. Any prefixes between first and last aren't that interesting and the first hundred or so notes from the AA00 run go to places like the Bank of England museum, the Queen's private collection and then various banking big-wigs. All way over my head though, I once went to an IBNS conference in London where a pal was going into extacies of delight over an UNC old "luncheon voucher" £1 note with a particularly rare "replacement" prefix that he'd just picked up from a dealer for £200. Does "£200 for a £1 note" beat "£400 for a penny"? :-) What is worth looking at is the nice fresh UNC notes that you get out of cash dispensers for interesting number combinations that collectors will pay a premium for, such as repeaters i.e 123123 or pairs i.e 556677 or radar i.e 123321. But the odds of finding one are like winning the lottery, I've checked every note coming out of a hole in the wall for the past 15 years and the nearest I've seen is a partial radar, something like 456651. If you ever see one, keep it and for God's sake DON'T FOLD IT! Now if I had this prefix and serial on a Bank of England note, I'd be laughing... That's exactly what I do, and when I drew out a tenner recently with the serial No HA27 444450, I was tempted to re-insert my card and draw out another £60 to get the 444444, given that new notes always seem to come out of the dispenser numerically in reverse. I later wished I had done, as I was the only one there, and had more than ample time.

Hi Rory, No doubt someone will answer your other questions, but with specific regard to cleaning, let me say that this is an art form, which is not easily mastered. You can easily reduce value by cleaning if you are not extremely careful. Also, it is often very obvious when a coin has been cleaned. I'd restrict yourself to wiping off any excess dirt/debris with a damp cloth and warm soapy water. Remember that's only for superficial dirt. You are not going to be able to get rid of a century old stain, for example, without radically altering the overall appearance of the coin, which is not desirable.

One of the images below is listed as an 1858 5 over 3 overstrike, and the other a plain 1858. But quite honestly I can't tell the difference. Can anybody point me in the right direction & what points to look for. Cheers guys

Yes, and I think it leans slightly more towards the 5, than the non overstrike examples. Thanks azda. I really appreciate your time and effort. Hope others can possibly benefit from this too.

Yes, despite the small images, that's a good point well made. I have two 1901 Unc pennies - one almost BU with that pale straw toning to the lustre, and a fingerprint on the reverse. The other is also technically Unc, but has an overall rich dark tone with some lingering lustre that is such a deep red colour, it's utterly gorgeous. When I get a chance I will try to post scans. I'll look forward to seeing them.

Crikey Some serious losses and thefts there. Certainly highlights the need for security at all times, especially in the transportation and posting of coins. Thanks for the link.

Cheers azda, I'll be interested to see it Thanks for your time.

Incidentally, in all the above, I did of course mean 8/3, not 5 !!!

Such is the problem with e bay images on occasions. A close up of the date is often needed. I wasn't singling you out, by the way. Yours just happened to be about the best image of the several 1858 5/3 overstrikes that were on offer. I was merely using it as a comparison.

That's always been my understanding as well. A phrase I'm seeing more and more regularly these days is, "rare/scarce in this grade", which is very true. It's often comparatively easy to get lower grade coins of a given year, even up to NEF, but incredibly difficult to get a true BU example. Peckris referred to the 1926 ME penny, which is a very obvious example (probably along with the 1918 & 1919KN), and my own recent collecting has placed both the 1921 & 1930 BU shillings, firmly into such a sliding scale category.

And above all, learn to appreciate the subtle distinctions that make a high grade coin individually unique and beautiful. For example : • patina, a gorgeous even colouration on bronze coins, which to my mind is far superior to patchy uneven lustre • toning, which can be utterly superb on silver coins, rich blues, olive, rainbow, reds BU is rated in catalogues as the highest of the high when it comes to condition. In terms of being closest to original mint state, that may be literally true, but then look at auction results or dealers' lists, and you will often see a toned coin coming in at a higher price than a BU. As long as the toning is attractive of course ... there are some dogs out there. Totally agree about toning, which can make a sub unc coin look utterly superb. My 1900 GEF penny looks amazingly attractive, with darker areas merging smoothly over traces of lustre on both sides, to create a very pleasing mellow effect. Yet my technically uncirculated 1895, has a dirty lustre indicative of about 2 to 4 years general circulation, and the fingerprints so common on slightly used bronze coins. Not nearly as attractive. Compare & contrast:-

Certainly looks very interesting. Thanks for the opportunity.

I can't clearly see the dates on your images, so I've attached a link to Michael Goubys listing of the various overdate types for the 1858 penny. http://www.michael-coins.co.uk/cp_1858.htm John Thanks Chingford. Never thought to look on Gouby's website. The other 1858 overstrikes are very obvious, but the 8 over 3, is anything but IMO. As he says, 8 over ? what.....

I'm not quite so sure? I was a schoolkid in the late 60s when that madness was prevailing, and as a newcomer I took it all as perfectly normal. Luckily I'd collected from change rather than spending money I didn't have or the complete collapse of modern prices from 1971 would have made me as tragically sad as it did various 'investment' dealers whose hands were well and truly burned. Obviously it is very difficult to make firm & confident predictions (or we'd all be millionaires!) but I'm not sure that the current eBay trends will continue forever upwards : that's what people were saying about the housing market... It's all about supply and demand. Like housing, if there is a combination of shortage and demand, prices will go up. If the supply increases, then demand will weaken. With coins, the supply of pre decimal is constant. It will never change, except for more and more quality materiakl being squirrelled away in private collections, never to see the light of day again. Not really for me to pontificate on the collapse in market & prices from 1971, as I wasn't around then. But I do wonder if it had anything to do with decimalisation. Maybe the mania had been driven by people checking what was in their change, and once that avenue had been withdrawn, the mass interest waned rapidly. Moreover, sometimes trends just suddenly change for no obvious reason at all. It had everything to do with decimalisation - which was of course, the spur for the frenzy & madness that preceded the collapse. I agree that trends that can change with no obvious reason, but there must be underlying causes, even if we can't immediately see them? Just as the collapse in the housing market OUGHT to have been dictated by the gods of supply and demand, though it wasn't. The supply of houses has been fairly constant - it was the collapse of the American sub-prime mortgage market, occasioned by banks stopping lending to each other, then the imminent near-collapse of the banks themselves, that did for our housing market. But before it collapsed it had over-heated to a ludicrous extent, driven by fear (first-time buyers desperately trying to get on the property ladder), greed (over-extended 'buy-to-let's, people trying to cash in on equity, etc), the general 'lemming' factor, among other factors. Strangely, supply and demand - i.e. 'normal' market forces - had very little to do with it, IMO. Supply and demand is nearly always the criteria cited by economists to describe market movements in the absence of other factors, such as the ones we have discussed. With house prices, an apparently over inflated market in early 2007, fell away rapidly after a brief period of stagnation, due, we would speculate, to global recession. But the underlying shortage of land and new builds, has made the UK housing market look more than resilient from mid 2009 onwards, as prices have recovered much of their previously lost ground, especially in the South East. I agree with much of what you say, but ultimately it will always come down to supply and demand, notwithstanding the massively complex nature of the economy and consumer trends. With coins, what held good in 1971, will not be repeated again today. None of us can possibly say what will happen in the future, but I agree with Declan that e bay is directly responsible for a resurgence of long dormant interest.

you see, you can say what you like about fleabay, but there's no doubt it's put a rocket under the hobby. Couldn't agree more, Declan. Sure, there's a lot of rubbish on there, but there's also plenty of very good stuff, and I woulodn't mind betting that it's re-sparked long dormant interest in many, Beebman being a typical example.

I'm not quite so sure? I was a schoolkid in the late 60s when that madness was prevailing, and as a newcomer I took it all as perfectly normal. Luckily I'd collected from change rather than spending money I didn't have or the complete collapse of modern prices from 1971 would have made me as tragically sad as it did various 'investment' dealers whose hands were well and truly burned. Obviously it is very difficult to make firm & confident predictions (or we'd all be millionaires!) but I'm not sure that the current eBay trends will continue forever upwards : that's what people were saying about the housing market... It's all about supply and demand. Like housing, if there is a combination of shortage and demand, prices will go up. If the supply increases, then demand will weaken. With coins, the supply of pre decimal is constant. It will never change, except for more and more quality materiakl being squirrelled away in private collections, never to see the light of day again. Not really for me to pontificate on the collapse in market & prices from 1971, as I wasn't around then. But I do wonder if it had anything to do with decimalisation. Maybe the mania had been driven by people checking what was in their change, and once that avenue had been withdrawn, the mass interest waned rapidly. Moreover, sometimes trends just suddenly change for no obvious reason at all.